tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6251675227852122352.post3040543367332336526..comments2024-01-05T06:18:18.086-05:00Comments on CommentaramaPolitics: Don't Label Me Bro!AndrewPricehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comBlogger38125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6251675227852122352.post-75359412355271143292010-12-15T17:07:29.609-05:002010-12-15T17:07:29.609-05:00Jed, I agree. I think all politicians should look...Jed, I agree. I think all politicians should look at each issue independently rather than just doing what their party tells them. But (1) as you say, that's not these guys and (2) it's the principles you use in making that analysis that get you labeled.AndrewPricehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6251675227852122352.post-44882551103824253552010-12-15T17:00:48.626-05:002010-12-15T17:00:48.626-05:00"No L" is code for "loserboy" ..."No L" is code for "loserboy" no question. I admit I could theoretically admire a person who analyzes each and every political issue on it's own specific merits and votes their conscience. That, of course, is not these guys.Tennessee Jedhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10604275115906776992noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6251675227852122352.post-4316345060259145152010-12-15T15:49:54.532-05:002010-12-15T15:49:54.532-05:00Tom, I can't see any Marine ever agreeing to l...Tom, I can't see any Marine ever agreeing to lose the Marine label. Labels, good or bad, tend to be earned and that one's a hard one to earn.AndrewPricehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6251675227852122352.post-7638329146101110632010-12-15T15:47:16.617-05:002010-12-15T15:47:16.617-05:00AndrewAsk a Marine if he would endorse no labels.O...Andrew<br>Ask a Marine if he would endorse no labels.<br><br>One label I can live without thoigh is the one bo wears.<br><br>Forest said it "stupid is as stupid does" and boy is this a stupid concept.Tehachapi Tomnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6251675227852122352.post-30763998918032791472010-12-15T15:45:42.470-05:002010-12-15T15:45:42.470-05:00Patti, Very true. People who disagree can always f...Patti, Very true. People who disagree can always find ways to come to agreement. The idea of not labeling is irrelevant to that, and in fact, would hinder the process because it would prevent people from understanding where everyone stood.<br><br>This is nothing more than attempt at deception, and that's the real disturbing part here. If they were being honest, they would have come together and found policies they could agree upon and call that a platform. Instead, they are advocating this "let's get sneaky" approach, which is unacceptable.<br><br>Good analogy to a marriage too, the same rules apply there and to all other human endeavors -- deception is destructive, and those who would deceive usually cloak their goals in something more noble sounding. . . "can't we all just get along?"AndrewPricehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6251675227852122352.post-1760049615580847842010-12-15T15:39:42.725-05:002010-12-15T15:39:42.725-05:00i haven't read thru the comments, so forgive m...i haven't read thru the comments, so forgive me if i am repeating the voice of others, but when i hear/read this nonsense, my gut reaction was it is just another liberal ploy to prey on the weak-minded. <br><br>sounds good in theory: let's not have sides; let's do the work of the people TOGETHER. but anyone who has lived into their 20's knows this is ludicrous.<br><br>it's the same idea as not keeping score at peewee basketball games, so no one feels like a loser. what the libs deny is that there is something to be learned in losing, that there is something valuable in knowing where one stands.<br><br>can those who disagree come to agreement? absolutely. happens every day in my marriage. but i'll tell you what neither of us tolerates and that's plain old fashioned deception or manipulation. it's soul-killing.<br><br>it's as true in marriage as it is in national discourse. <br><br>if i meet a person who tells me they are "no label" i'll know one of two things immediately. they are either a) a brazen lib or b) a weak-minded soul who refuses to think for themselves. <br><br>ugh.Pattihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15388997298014397980noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6251675227852122352.post-92108361231777969062010-12-15T15:30:53.663-05:002010-12-15T15:30:53.663-05:00Individualist, That is a system I could actually g...Individualist, That is a system I could actually get behind! What a great idea! But somehow, I suspect that the "No Labels" crowd won't go for that. LOL!AndrewPricehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6251675227852122352.post-8180283337076236902010-12-15T15:29:34.503-05:002010-12-15T15:29:34.503-05:00Crispy & Bev, Brilliant! LOL! Talk about irony...Crispy & Bev, Brilliant! LOL! Talk about irony! :-)AndrewPricehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6251675227852122352.post-30946319260835939452010-12-15T15:29:10.189-05:002010-12-15T15:29:10.189-05:00AndrewI have a compromise that might make the No L...Andrew<br><br>I have a compromise that might make the No Lables thing work for you. We will all gladly trade their labels for a number. It works like this...<br><br>Each and every politicians track record is analyzed and the value of the cost to the tax payers of their votes is calculated. To that we add their salary plus other perks such as their own private jets. They then have to wear special hats everywhere they go that shows a running number indicating this cost real time.<br><br>I will gladly do away with the label for the number in the spirit of bipartinship.Individualisthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11005025873042230314noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6251675227852122352.post-38661748904591624492010-12-15T15:14:59.612-05:002010-12-15T15:14:59.612-05:00OMG, Bev, this is so true - "Of course, by gr...OMG, Bev, this is so true - "Of course, by grouping together under the "No Labels" banner, they have actually labeled themselves."<br><br>It's like a bad SNL spoof! I can see them marching down the street with the "NO Labels" banners and pins. "Paid for by No Labels LLC."<br><br>LOL!CrispyRicehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07302075204880024936noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6251675227852122352.post-54289438211269132902010-12-15T15:05:09.194-05:002010-12-15T15:05:09.194-05:00Bev, I'm all in favor of a new party forming o...Bev, I'm all in favor of a new party forming on the left to split their vote! But sadly, I think it would need to be a progressive party to cause an effective split. Splitting moderates into a new moderate-middle party probably would just end up all talk and no action. Still, I wish these people luck in splitting the left! :-)AndrewPricehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6251675227852122352.post-56762768914401881662010-12-15T15:02:11.039-05:002010-12-15T15:02:11.039-05:00JG & Bev, I'll defer to Bev on this one as...JG & Bev, I'll defer to Bev on this one as I don't know much about Gillibrand.<br><br>I will say though, that none of the names surprises me. Tom Davis in particular has been a far-left "Republican" for years -- further left than even most of the famous RINOs. And the Democrats on the list (like Machin and Bayh) seem to be people who are finding their states drifting right as their party speeds further left. So they need cover of some sort.AndrewPricehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6251675227852122352.post-22789837548302836072010-12-15T14:58:40.581-05:002010-12-15T14:58:40.581-05:00JG, I agree entirely. And your analogy about rat ...JG, I agree entirely. And your analogy about rat poison is entirely correct. <br><br>Labels are what help us understand the world. Without labels, we have no basis for communication. They are what help us distinguish between different products (rat poison/Parmesan) and between good and bad products (Coke v. Pepsi v. ElCheapO brand). They are how we take a large amount of information and make it something we can process, like the difference between saying "thunderstorm" and needing to describe the details of what is happening.<br><br>They are also how we classify people. How do you find an electrician if you can't label one? How do you find a particular type of doctor or lawyer if you can't label them?<br><br>Without labels, it would be almost impossible for us to communicate with each other in any meaningful sense.<br><br>So if they are so important in every other aspect of our lives, why should we suddenly fear labels in politics?<br><br>Moreover, if you believe the things you advocate, then why would you be upset about being labeled? Shouldn't you be proud to adopt the label? In other words, if you believe in progressive ideas or conservative ideas or whatever, then be proud of the progressive label, or of the conservative label or the moderate label or whatever.<br><br>The idea of getting rid of labels is an idea advocated by people who know that the public does not like what they stand for, and they want to try to get their ideas through by stealth, i.e. deceit. There is no other reason.<br><br>If their concern was really in just finding ways to cooperate, then they can do that through negotiation and persuasion, not by trying to inject confusion by getting rid of labels.AndrewPricehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6251675227852122352.post-3550853544394090762010-12-15T14:57:12.797-05:002010-12-15T14:57:12.797-05:00Actually JG, Gillibrand has always been a Democrat...Actually JG, Gillibrand has always been a Democrat in a more conservative Democrat district. Once she was appointed to replace Hillary Clinton in 2009 in the Senate, she began drifting left to please Chuck Schumer and the Dem Leadership in NY.<br><br>And frankly the only issue that made her "conservative" was her stand as a pro-NRA'er. That changed though.BevfromNYChttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14953050916932306270noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6251675227852122352.post-33914776152607501612010-12-15T14:51:55.465-05:002010-12-15T14:51:55.465-05:00I think it's great! We need a "liberal&q...I think it's great! We need a "liberal" third-party movement to be the spoiler for the Democrats in 2012. It will be 1992 all over again except this time it will Obama who suffers instead of a Republican candidate. If you think about it, this is the perfect way for the Dems to get rid of Obama without having to run against him in a primary.<br><br>Of course, by grouping together under the "No Labels" banner, they have actually labeled themselves. Maybe they should have done the Prince thing and just use a symbol.BevfromNYChttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14953050916932306270noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6251675227852122352.post-58251253625685114982010-12-15T14:50:45.332-05:002010-12-15T14:50:45.332-05:00BTW, it is no surprise to me that the likes of Gil...BTW, it is no surprise to me that the likes of Gillibrand support this. Didn't she run as "basically a Republican, just happens to be a Democrat"? Gah.JGhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03116405895683599572noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6251675227852122352.post-62773662877607376742010-12-15T14:33:42.284-05:002010-12-15T14:33:42.284-05:00I know I'm late coming to the conversation, bu...I know I'm late coming to the conversation, but AMEN! I'm so sick of seeing people, even "conservative" third-party promoters, talk about how much we need bipartisanship and fewer labels. Um, labels save lives. It's the difference between grated Parmesan cheese and rat poison. Do you want to have to guess which one you're putting on your spaghetti?<br><br>That's probably a silly analogy, but we need partisanship. Partisanship is what drives people to defend ideas and protect their constituents. Like you say, people want clear choices. And when someone says they are for "bipartisanship," all that says to me is that they are too feckless to stand for anything, up to and including my rights. But I'm one of those "right-wing extremists."JGhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03116405895683599572noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6251675227852122352.post-27381434840766043762010-12-15T14:11:18.566-05:002010-12-15T14:11:18.566-05:00FYI, Folks, the tax bill passed the Senate easily ...FYI, Folks, the tax bill passed the Senate easily -- 81 to 19. So now we see how much sway Obama has with House Democrats.<br><br>Either way, the damage is done and the Democrats look like angry children.AndrewPricehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6251675227852122352.post-60378687761478423222010-12-15T14:10:10.788-05:002010-12-15T14:10:10.788-05:00That's old school thinking Lawhawk. The new t...That's old school thinking Lawhawk. The new thinking on the left is that sticks and stone are ok if the cause is right, but name calling is bullying and harmful and must be stopped.AndrewPricehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6251675227852122352.post-34083796238651323502010-12-15T13:57:30.492-05:002010-12-15T13:57:30.492-05:00Sticks and stones may break my bones, but names wi...Sticks and stones may break my bones, but names will let people know who I am (or who they think I am).LawHawkRFDhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17800255923675295515noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6251675227852122352.post-48439551736936696362010-12-15T13:26:51.039-05:002010-12-15T13:26:51.039-05:00ACG, Imagine a world without labels. . . it's ...ACG, Imagine a world without labels. . . it's easy if you try. . . nothing to tell you what you're buying, or help you understand why. Imagine all the people running around confu... u... used.... ;-)<br><br><br>P.S. I love the Pirate Re-enactor thing! That is totally cool!AndrewPricehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6251675227852122352.post-88018055859052742702010-12-15T13:24:45.833-05:002010-12-15T13:24:45.833-05:00Ed, There weren't any calls for bipartisanship...Ed, There weren't any calls for bipartisanship, there were calls for Republicans to get with the program and do what Obama wants. But that's how they always play this game.AndrewPricehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6251675227852122352.post-25729601736933103702010-12-15T13:16:15.672-05:002010-12-15T13:16:15.672-05:00Next thing you're going to hear is that they d...Next thing you're going to hear is that they do not want to be called man or woman either. We are all labeled and we label ourselves just fine without help from others. Take me for instance. I am an author, a writer, a game designer, pirate reenactor, libertarian husband and a father. Ok, my 'real' job is in IT but hey how else can I describe myself without using labels?ArmChairGeneralhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08198920658123610173noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6251675227852122352.post-71706618806344544002010-12-15T13:01:01.163-05:002010-12-15T13:01:01.163-05:00Where were all these calls for bipartisanship when...Where were all these calls for bipartisanship when they were ramming through Obama's agenda? Weren't we told over and over that elections have consequences and that the Democrats should use their majorities to push through what they want to push through?Ednoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6251675227852122352.post-2113303389057126882010-12-15T12:21:03.703-05:002010-12-15T12:21:03.703-05:00Dane, I think that's true. How can you trust ...Dane, I think that's true. How can you trust an ideology that won't tell you what it's goals or policies are and wants to hide from people?AndrewPricehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.com