tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6251675227852122352.post9017594448365676452..comments2024-01-05T06:18:18.086-05:00Comments on CommentaramaPolitics: No, This Is Not ComfortingAndrewPricehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comBlogger32125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6251675227852122352.post-29579269705911757302012-12-05T13:53:53.685-05:002012-12-05T13:53:53.685-05:00tryanmax, There is soooo much the GOP/conservative...tryanmax, There is soooo much the GOP/conservatives are doing wrong, and the worst part is they don't want to change.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6251675227852122352.post-80793402898962403542012-12-05T13:52:57.322-05:002012-12-05T13:52:57.322-05:00Indi, While I agree that it would be nice to fix t...Indi, While I agree that it would be nice to fix that image, you are talking about deck chairs on the Titanic.<br /><br />The welfare vote is not the issues. The issue is the 40% of the population that is singles and the 28% that is minorities. Welfare plays into that as a "scare" factor. We are scaring those people (and young families) by telling them we want to destroy the safety net. And the ironic thing is that no one in our party seriously considers following up on the rhetoric. Basically, we are pissing people off just for the sake of pissing them off.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6251675227852122352.post-13059999298968837972012-12-05T13:52:44.436-05:002012-12-05T13:52:44.436-05:00Andrew, I guess there's just so much the GOP i...Andrew, I guess there's just so much the GOP is doing wrong, it's hard to limit myself. LOL! Plus, you can't be hip and scary at the same time. (Unless you're Michael Jackson--and I'm not talking about the "Thriller" video.) <br /><br />tryanmaxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09881154741574720094noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6251675227852122352.post-10873675802452992232012-12-05T13:42:14.648-05:002012-12-05T13:42:14.648-05:00tryanmax, I'm all in favor of the hip factor, ...tryanmax, I'm all in favor of the hip factor, but I think there is something even more basic: (1) stop scaring people and (2) offer a vision to make their lives better. We don't do that right now.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6251675227852122352.post-41230820330818275722012-12-05T13:40:05.273-05:002012-12-05T13:40:05.273-05:00Bev, I think you misunderstand me. I don't ex...Bev, I think you misunderstand me. I don't expect that New York will suddenly become super conservative.<br /><br />What I am saying is that the party needs to return to a position where it is competitive in those states. Right now, the Democrats can win anywhere... we can't. We need to change that. We should be much more competitive in rural and upstate New York, just as we should be doing better in places like California because we can't ever win if we're going to cede half the seats in the country to the Democrats and then fight only for the rest.<br /><br />Moreover, again, this isn't a matter of 1-0, 100% or nothing... this is a matter of degree. If we could even get a liberal Republican to win a Senate seat in New York, that would make a world of difference in Washington. The idea that we should only accept the most pure Republicans is killing the party.<br /><br />Also, as you point out about Long, that is more evidence of a party that isn't even trying. We simply cannot win by only playing in certain states.<br /><br />We need to detoxify the party, we need to offer a compelling vision of the future, we need to fight for every seat with candidates who can win in that region.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6251675227852122352.post-45126019685985694232012-12-05T13:28:39.589-05:002012-12-05T13:28:39.589-05:00"Bev, Your state, however, sends 2 Democrats ..."Bev, Your state, however, sends 2 Democrats to the Senate every year and a vast majority of Democrats to the House. And those Democrats are people like Charlie Rangel and Chuck Schumer... some of the worst."<br /><br />I don't mean to rain on your parade, but, yes, they are the worst, but that is not going to change. Ol' Charlie could rape a woman on national television and still get re-elected. Same for Chuckles Schumer and a long line right down to City Counsel members who have actually committed crimes against the taxpayers, but still get elected. They are all here to stay until they choose to leave, are imprisoned, or die. We essentially have Democrats and Democrats who call themselves Republicans to run for office. <br /><br />The Republicans actually had a viable Conservative, non-wackadoodle candidate Wendy Long who ran against Sen. Gillibrand in 2012. Have you actually heard of Wendy Long? No, because she got no money from anybody to make her presence known. And since she remained an actual policy driven, intelligent woman and scandal-free, she got no free publicity either. But on the plus side, she wasn't damaged like other female Republican candidates either. That's a plus.<br /><br />So if you actually expect there to be a real Republican anything coming out of New York in the near or far future, you will be wasting your expectations. Oh, and the "Tea Party" candidates who won in 2010 were "re-districted" out of existance in 2012. Funny how that worked out.BevfromNYChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14953050916932306270noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6251675227852122352.post-9630215551128084112012-12-05T13:11:15.207-05:002012-12-05T13:11:15.207-05:00"Indi, The thing about embracing welfare isn&..."Indi, The thing about embracing welfare isn't an attempt to win welfare voters. It's an attempt to stop scaring middle/low class workers know that they are only one bad break away from being on welfare."<br /><br />All well and good but the issue remains there are too many welfare voters. <br /><br />I have a freind of mine who is a lawyer who was doing probono work for this elderly lady. She spent the majority of her life in the projects but managed to save some money and get a house through habitat for humanity.<br /><br />She had a problem because the bank kept "losing track" of her mortgage payments. Exasperated he told her "part of your problem is that you don't have a bank account. You pay with money orders. If you paid by check there would be a paper trail with the bank". Her response was "oh no I can't possibly have a bank account, no sir". He was perplexed.<br /><br />I having audited HUD housing knew why. I don't think that welfare voters are all lost. The younger ones yes but the older ones who get trapped there is an opportunity if you show them you are helping them.<br /><br />MArk Little has an in depth poll done on the Black voters in Jacksoville Florida. One of the things the campaign could pay for early on. The results showed that the community agreed with conservatives many more times than liberals despite the fact they would not vote Republican. Abortion, christian values, school vouchers, teaching standards that required all shcools to teach kids, ..... That community is what southerners would classsify as God Fearing Christians.<br /><br />One of the problems is that the Progs have been allowed to brand the name Republican in those areas so bad that we can't approach them on where we do agree. <br /><br />We can only counteract that by going into the hood and working with them. If we are doing this then the lower class one step away may say if I do fall maybe these TEA party types will help me get back to where I was.<br /><br />Individualisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11005025873042230314noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6251675227852122352.post-89480794677294502542012-12-05T13:09:03.248-05:002012-12-05T13:09:03.248-05:00Bev, places like NYC, LA, Chicago, and any other l...Bev, places like NYC, LA, Chicago, and any other large urban centers are where the GOP needs to pick up the "hip" factor. With the exception of Obama himself, I don't really see the Dems working the cool angle anymore. They've got it in the bag, so it doesn't matter how patently <i>uncool</i> many of their most prominent members are. Honestly, the Dems are their most vulnerable in that area; I suspect if there was a real "cool contest" the Dems would be caught flat-footed. Unfortunately the GOP thinks being cool is beneath them.tryanmaxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09881154741574720094noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6251675227852122352.post-17573435828080603632012-12-05T12:53:46.057-05:002012-12-05T12:53:46.057-05:00Bev, Your state, however, sends 2 Democrats to the...Bev, Your state, however, sends 2 Democrats to the Senate every year and a vast majority of Democrats to the House. And those Democrats are people like Charlie Rangel and Chuck Schumer... some of the worst.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6251675227852122352.post-47296646955009636372012-12-05T12:52:07.011-05:002012-12-05T12:52:07.011-05:00Since I live in a state where being Democrat or Re...Since I live in a state where being Democrat or Republican is just a matter of what line on the ballot needs to be filled and nothing to do with platform or policy, I am Switzerland on this issue.BevfromNYChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14953050916932306270noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6251675227852122352.post-28450456536898683562012-12-05T12:46:16.643-05:002012-12-05T12:46:16.643-05:00T-Rav, This:
If we can't win a Pennsylvania s...T-Rav, This:<br /><br /><i>If we can't win a Pennsylvania seat and the Democrats can hold a seat in North Dakota, that is officially something to not be celebrated.</i><br /><br />... is the real key to the problem. We need to become more competitive in every state. And that means we need to make changes that will attract a broader swath of people.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6251675227852122352.post-92104800968317175982012-12-05T12:44:47.803-05:002012-12-05T12:44:47.803-05:00Indi and tryanmax, Yep... my article. :)Indi and tryanmax, Yep... my article. :)AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6251675227852122352.post-76518001455311960402012-12-05T12:43:54.907-05:002012-12-05T12:43:54.907-05:00Indi, The thing about embracing welfare isn't ...Indi, The thing about embracing welfare isn't an attempt to win welfare voters. It's an attempt to stop scaring middle/low class workers know that they are only one bad break away from being on welfare.<br /><br />I agree on the wealth class, they won't vote Republican, which is why we need to stop coddling them. We need to stop letting them feel morally smug while doing the dirty work of protecting them from the things they claim they want but know we will never impose. Let Obama whack them with huge taxes.<br /><br />On the rest of the urban problem, however, we need to make inroads with singles, young women and minorities. That means we need to stop scaring them and we need to offer them a vision of America that appeals to them. Right now we don't offer that, all we do is scare those people.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6251675227852122352.post-65237389305060103012012-12-05T12:36:19.327-05:002012-12-05T12:36:19.327-05:00tryanmax, On the core thing, I agree. The issue i...tryanmax, On the core thing, I agree. The issue isn't core values, it's the fringe stuff. And even then the real problem is again what K suggests -- when it comes to things average people hate, the Democrats are great at hiding those things, our side prefers to sensationalize those.<br /><br />On urbanization, I honestly don't see that as a true issue anymore. There are only a couple minor issues where farmers versus apartment dwellers arises. The real issue is that we can't win the people who live in cities -- women, gays, minorities, singles. That's our problem and it's only going to get worse because they are growing in numbers.<br /><br />On the gerrymandering, it is good that it protects us, but for how much longer? If we only "usually" win states like Texas and we never win states like California, at some point, the gerrymandering power will shift. There is no comfort here for our side... we got lucky <i>for now</i>.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6251675227852122352.post-36501937018022508682012-12-05T12:25:35.887-05:002012-12-05T12:25:35.887-05:00Anthony, That is encouraging and we definitely hav...Anthony, That is encouraging and we definitely have a better farm team than the Democrats. What troubles me though, is that while we do well with governors, we fail when it comes to Senators, which is just as important.<br /><br />We should be sweeping the entire inside of the country except for the most liberal states, but we aren't.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6251675227852122352.post-15826525314744488172012-12-05T12:21:55.576-05:002012-12-05T12:21:55.576-05:00Indi, Urbanization is just the telltale sign of th...Indi, Urbanization is just the telltale sign of the bigger problem -- the Republican Party is loathed by the people who live in cities... minorities, young singles, professionals. And they are the future. Hence, we have a real problem.<br /><br />That's why we need to make inroads with those groups. And again, the key here is to stop this strange thought conservatives have that "well, we can't win them all, so why try." If we can even swing 10-20% of those people to us, we would win every state in a landslide. But right now we are totally anathema to those people because so many of our fringe issues are just poisonous.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6251675227852122352.post-33245471342045026442012-12-05T12:18:13.749-05:002012-12-05T12:18:13.749-05:00Anthony, That's true. And when you add in the...Anthony, That's true. And when you add in the way seniority works, what safe districts get you is old guys who are out of touch leading the party -- because they are totally safe in their own districts, their districts don't look like anywhere else in America, and they know they are untouchable.<br /><br />That's a bad recipe ultimately.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6251675227852122352.post-66523217682111111142012-12-05T12:13:25.380-05:002012-12-05T12:13:25.380-05:00Anthony, Unfortunately, that issue is a highly cha...Anthony, Unfortunately, that issue is a highly charged one and the Republicans have not figured out an effective way to sell it yet. So if they're going to do it, they need to just do it and be done with it. Stretching something like that out is a problem.<br /><br />What they should do is hide it in a national voter fraud act which funds "unbreakable" electronic machines, etc. etc. Basically, hide it within a larger bill intended to "stop Florida from happening again."AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6251675227852122352.post-25864959657098638182012-12-05T12:07:37.123-05:002012-12-05T12:07:37.123-05:00K, It is a good thing in that regard, but the poin...K, It is a good thing in that regard, but the point is that this should not give us comfort. I'm hearing a lot of people say, "well, we won the House so the public does just love us, it was clearly Romney's fault he lost." That's the wrong message -- we need to make changes.<br /><br />On the abortion thing, I'd like to see it dropped too. But even without going that far, it would be nice if that party of the party learned to shut the hell up around election time just like the gays, the gun Nazis, the feminists, and every other crazy on the left knows to be quiet during elections.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6251675227852122352.post-17489225085992205522012-12-05T12:01:40.762-05:002012-12-05T12:01:40.762-05:00LL, I don't agree with that. I don't thin...LL, I don't agree with that. I don't think the "core" values are the problem. I think the fringe values are the problem. I think giving up the fringe stuff we will never get is the key. And beyond that, we need to find some actual core values -- we don't have any at the moment except "nothing changes."AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6251675227852122352.post-58242533985438914072012-12-05T11:39:12.075-05:002012-12-05T11:39:12.075-05:00Indie, Andrew did write it, I just had responses t...Indie, Andrew did write it, I just had responses to a number of comments. tryanmaxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09881154741574720094noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6251675227852122352.post-7276777148561359482012-12-05T11:06:57.286-05:002012-12-05T11:06:57.286-05:00Yeah. Saying things like "Well, we held the H...Yeah. Saying things like "Well, we held the House" or "Romney reduced Obama's margin of victory" doesn't make me feel any better. It's not like we won anything that matters. If we can't win a Pennsylvania seat and the Democrats can hold a seat in North Dakota, that is officially something to not be celebrated.T-Ravhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10861218035729479354noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6251675227852122352.post-87766790990238708032012-12-05T11:02:38.990-05:002012-12-05T11:02:38.990-05:00tyranmax
The article just says posted by Andrew ...tyranmax <br /><br />The article just says posted by Andrew Price so I am assuming he wrote it....<br /><br />Urbanization comes to two factors:<br /><br />Those on government assistance and those who are wealthy. Strange as it may sound I believe it is the urban wealth that is lost to us. money is no longer made by building an industry, it is made by trading on it and the Soros model of Chrony capitalism and state controlled banking gives them to much power.<br /><br />That leaves the poor. The only real way that I think the GOP can make any end roads there is a program designed to lift people out of welfare. The GOP needs to make charitable end roads that get people training, schooling and jobs. It has to be known to them that TEA party types are funding it.<br /><br />There is no way we will get any real government funding for it because just like school vouchers the left will attack it and getting it passed will be impossible. So we will have to find the capital to set this up ourselves. I just can't see the GOP ever getting any traction by embracing welfare. The Dems are too entrenched there.<br /><br />But I don't know..... it is a very steep cliff to climbIndividualisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11005025873042230314noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6251675227852122352.post-53381279781354989662012-12-05T10:09:26.786-05:002012-12-05T10:09:26.786-05:00LL, the GOP doesn't need to exchange any core ...LL, the GOP doesn't need to exchange any core values for votes, unless it considers things like English-only, censoring the Internet, and preventing flag desecration to be core. (Hey, it's all in the party platform.)<br /><br />K and Anthony, I agree that gerrymandering isn't all bad. It ensures the 45% the GOP represents still have a voice in Washington. But they shouldn't take false comfort from it. <br /><br />Indie, urbanization is a major factor insomuch as the GOP hasn't really confronted it. The Framers were aware of the rift b/w urban and rural and, I think, built a system well equipped to handle it. So the issue rests solely with the party that doesn't engage it.<br /><br />Anthony, I too am encouraged by the number of Republican governors. Also, 28 junior senators are Republican, which I think does bode well for the future of the party. <br /><br />The Dems still have the youth image, but I see some signs that they are starting to lose their grip on it. Obama took a smaller portion of the youth vote in '12 than he did in '08. And the DNC doesn't appear to have as many young up-and-comers as the RNC. <br /><br />Honestly, I'm most worried about my age group. It's the only age demo that Obama didn't lose a percentage of b/w elections.tryanmaxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09881154741574720094noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6251675227852122352.post-88118583686139641632012-12-05T09:10:09.156-05:002012-12-05T09:10:09.156-05:00I think the fact that there are 30 Repubican gover...I think the fact that there are 30 Repubican governors is very encouraging. Some of the governors have very different policies, but all of them offer the national party real world examples of ways it can deal with various challenges.Anthonyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16124128949343301445noreply@blogger.com