tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6251675227852122352.post1421149838998804716..comments2024-01-05T06:18:18.086-05:00Comments on CommentaramaPolitics: Leftist Hate SpeechAndrewPricehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comBlogger63125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6251675227852122352.post-15874264101674704552011-01-13T20:55:57.806-05:002011-01-13T20:55:57.806-05:00JG, Excellent! Sadly, whether people like it or n...JG, Excellent! Sadly, whether people like it or not, politics has been intruding on all aspects of our lives these days, so people are going to find themselves dealing with politics whether they want to or not.<br><br>You're welcome about the shootout. Unfortunately, I'm not sure we made much progress. Actually, I didn't think we would. Anyone who could equate calling someone names with making murder threats, and who thinks that death threats against a President can be justified, isn't someone who is going to listen. Plus, she did the time honored head-in-the-sand strategy of ignoring everything we said and constantly coming back with "I see racism everywhere." It's hard to get through to people like that. People like that are simply trying to validate their prior beliefs.AndrewPricehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6251675227852122352.post-67183587199415283412011-01-13T20:35:36.647-05:002011-01-13T20:35:36.647-05:00Just jumped over here from the link in today's...Just jumped over here from the link in today's comment thread. Thanks for the shout-out. Yes, my audience is largely not political, but I'm working on 'em. ;)JGhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03116405895683599572noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6251675227852122352.post-32398870790676320862011-01-13T13:15:38.064-05:002011-01-13T13:15:38.064-05:00(continued)Your problem is that like all delusiona...(continued)<br>Your problem is that like all delusional leftists today, you take all that is bad and define that as "it must have been conservatives." And then you take all that was good and say, "that must have been liberals." When the reality is that the Democrats (the left) was the party of slave, the party of Jim Crowe, the party of unions that kept blacks out, the party that started every war until Desert Storm, the party that spreads race-hate today through identity politics and group blame, etc. etc. And your intellectual brethren, whether you like this or not, are the socialists the world over who have murdered hundreds of millions of people in the name of "progress." Just because you claim to have no intent to murder anyone does not absolve your ideology of that stain. You share their core belief that the individual must be dominated by the state. And if you deny that, then tell me what you would do to anyone who tells you to shove it and says they will not pay your taxes or conform to your speech regulation?<br><br>You are ignorant and delusional, and your ideology is clearly so fragile that you are unwilling to hear the truth. Instead, you put your head in the sand and you blame white racists and conservatives for the crimes of your own side.<br><br>Oh, and by they way, as an attorney, I have met several KKK members. I hate to break this to you, but they were all <i>staunch Democrats</i> who wanted to be rid of blacks so they could create a "white <i>SOCIALIST</i> paradise." That makes them your ideological kin. Deal with it.AndrewPricehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6251675227852122352.post-51184618049423671882011-01-13T13:15:27.679-05:002011-01-13T13:15:27.679-05:00Mary, Your grasp on history and reality is tenuous...Mary, Your grasp on history and reality is tenuous at best. I don't even know where to begin with you? Basically, every single sentence you utter is wrong.<br><br>You place the blame on Bush for things that have been going on for decades. You credit Clinton with things that have been going on for decades. You try to claim that your side support all the good things government does and you disavow all the bad. You also don't seem to get that conservatives are not anti-government nor are they opposed to some government services. Indeed, your entire view of conservatives comes right out of the lunatic guide if you think the right consists of racists -- the right shoved their racists out years ago, why haven't you all on the left?<br><br>Moreover, the fact that you would equate the use of the word "nigger" with murder shows that you are truly off the deep end. There is a huge difference between name calling and threats of violence, and if you can't see that then you truly are beyond hope -- not to mention that I doubt a single claim you make about seeing this racism.<br><br>Not to mention that the idea that you think the death threats against Bush were valid, tell us that you are indeed a hateful creature. And the fact that you seem to want to avoid discussing the death threats against Scott, Malkin, Run, Palin and the rest that I've identified in the article, yet you claim that I've presented no evidence of hate speech, tells again that you are a lying, hateful little creature.<br><br>(continued)AndrewPricehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6251675227852122352.post-31126573724431123312011-01-13T10:17:25.613-05:002011-01-13T10:17:25.613-05:00Mary, why are you switching back and forth between...Mary, why are you switching back and forth between your name and "Anonymous" in the multiple copies of your posts? Are you off your meds? Also, if you're so interested in "civil debate," why leave--even after Andrew apologized for getting a little heated? Of course, I guess you'll never see this, since you chose to scurry off instead. Guess I'll just say all this to the empty room. Hello-ello-lo-lo-lo.....T_Ravnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6251675227852122352.post-7855429104998764032011-01-13T08:44:38.481-05:002011-01-13T08:44:38.481-05:00Who put the bullet through Rep. Raul Grijalva wind...Who put the bullet through Rep. Raul Grijalva window? Who smashed in Giffords office door? Who is making death threats to Mitchell? Who is spitting on Barney Frank? And calling Congressmen niggers? Who said, “I’ll tell you who should be tortured and killed at Guantanamo: every filthy Democrat in the U.S. Congress. “? Your hero, Sean Hannity. <br><br>You see we already have an index of your hate speech. Why is it you don’t have one on the left?<br><br>I’d like to hang out longer with you civil folks that accuse me of having an ideology of murder and hate and call me a piece of shit. I came here specifically to find examples of leftist hate speech to provide balance to an article I was writing. <br><br>Instead I have found the opposite. Adieu.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6251675227852122352.post-62416523601450073142011-01-13T08:41:10.722-05:002011-01-13T08:41:10.722-05:00The Right wants less government like our friend Da...The Right wants less government like our friend David Miller and less social services. Fine, but perhaps you better start boiling your own water from the nearest stream and burning your garbage lest you be lumped in with murderers, too.<br><br>I work in the movie industry for those sinful Hollywood types that the Right seem to so disdain. Before that I had a special effects studio that catered to the auto industry and I saw that in the greed and overspending on advertising instead of innovation (the first four years of Bush) they were doomed to fail and I shut it down rather than work for fools. I once put the homeless in that neighborhood to work, after a while it became a wasteland. My studio is now a nursing school. The last four years of Bush, who as a President’s son is surely part of the ELITE you claim the Left worships, I started a small PR agency for start-ups and small businesses only to watch them struggle in the end.<br><br>David Miller works for the Sovereign Citizens Movement, who are anti- government with white extremist elements. You sweet white boys on the Right have never been associated with murders have you? And NOW I suppose you will tell me the Klu Klux Klan is a leftist group, too.<br><br>Miller may be a nut, but he is your nut.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6251675227852122352.post-60698613361541005192011-01-13T08:38:31.150-05:002011-01-13T08:38:31.150-05:00You are lumping me in with Socialist Dictators and...You are lumping me in with Socialist Dictators and I don’t believe I expressed the need for a dictator in this country. I don’t live in China or South America or Cambodia. I live in America. My family left Lithuania because of Hitler and the rest hailed from Scotland, six generations of them. I grew up in a conservative household. <br><br>There are ideals from the right that I believe are correct, BUT as a progressive I believe in social programs like Police, Garbage Collection, Clean Water, Health Care and Social Security. I live in the city of Detroit and I talk to people every day who are looking for work. People who are learning new skills in training programs partially funded by Federal funds and I’ve seen innovation and creativity in companies that are creating new jobs because tax credits (created under Clinton) help them open businesses here. This city is poor, there is a man here who sits out on the sidewalk all day selling bottled water in the summer. He doesn’t make much, but he’s contributing to the family income.<br><br>I am happy to pay a little more in taxes if it helps these folks out. <br><br>None of this makes me a murderer!Mary Hanningtonhttp://www.vagabondguru.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6251675227852122352.post-42018939356455215482011-01-13T08:36:05.035-05:002011-01-13T08:36:05.035-05:00You are lumping me in with Socialist Dictators and...You are lumping me in with Socialist Dictators and I don’t believe I expressed the need for a dictator in this country. I don’t live in China or South America or Cambodia. I live in America. My family left Lithuania because of Hitler and the rest hailed from Scotland, six generations of them. I grew up in a conservative household. <br><br>There are ideals from the right that I believe are correct, BUT as a progressive I believe in social programs like Police, Garbage Collection, Clean Water, Health Care and Social Security. I live in the city of Detroit and I talk to people every day who are looking for work. People who are learning new skills in training programs partially funded by Federal funds and I’ve seen innovation and creativity in companies that are creating new jobs because tax credits (created under Clinton) help them open businesses here. This city is poor, there is a man here who sits out on the sidewalk all day selling bottled water in the summer. He doesn’t make much, but he’s contributing to the family income.<br><br>I am happy to pay a little more in taxes if it helps these folks out. <br><br>None of this makes me a murderer!<br><br>The Right wants less government like our friend David Miller and less social services. Fine, but perhaps you better start boiling your own water from the nearest stream and burning your garbage lest you be lumped in with murderers, too.<br><br>I work in the movie industry for those sinful Hollywood types that the Right seem to so disdain. Before that I had a special effects studio that catered to the auto industry and I saw that in the greed and overspending on advertising instead of innovation (the first four years of Bush) they were doomed to fail and I shut it down rather than work for fools. I once put the homeless in that neighborhood to work, after a while it became a wasteland. My studio is now a nursing school. The last four years of Bush, who as a President’s son is surely part of the ELITE you claim the Left worships, I started a small PR agency for start-ups and small businesses only to watch them struggle in the end.<br><br>David Miller works for the Sovereign Citizens Movement, who are anti- government with white extremist elements. You sweet white boys on the Right have never been associated with murders have you? And NOW I suppose you will tell me the Klu Klux Klan is a leftist group, too.<br><br>Miller may be a nut, but he is your nut.Mary Hanningtonhttp://www.vagabondguru.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6251675227852122352.post-68254039951512776662011-01-13T08:34:59.482-05:002011-01-13T08:34:59.482-05:00You are lumping me in with Socialist Dictators and...You are lumping me in with Socialist Dictators and I don’t believe I expressed the need for a dictator in this country. I don’t live in China or South America or Cambodia. I live in America. My family left Lithuania because of Hitler and the rest hailed from Scotland, six generations of them. I grew up in a conservative household. <br><br>There are ideals from the right that I believe are correct, BUT as a progressive I believe in social programs like Police, Garbage Collection, Clean Water, Health Care and Social Security. I live in the city of Detroit and I talk to people every day who are looking for work. People who are learning new skills in training programs partially funded by Federal funds and I’ve seen innovation and creativity in companies that are creating new jobs because tax credits (created under Clinton) help them open businesses here. This city is poor, there is a man here who sits out on the sidewalk all day selling bottled water in the summer. He doesn’t make much, but he’s contributing to the family income.<br><br>I am happy to pay a little more in taxes if it helps these folks out. <br><br>None of this makes me a murderer!<br><br>The Right wants less government like our friend David Miller and less social services. Fine, but perhaps you better start boiling your own water from the nearest stream and burning your garbage lest you be lumped in with murderers, too.<br><br>I work in the movie industry for those sinful Hollywood types that the Right seem to so disdain. Before that I had a special effects studio that catered to the auto industry and I saw that in the greed and overspending on advertising instead of innovation (the first four years of Bush) they were doomed to fail and I shut it down rather than work for fools. I once put the homeless in that neighborhood to work, after a while it became a wasteland. My studio is now a nursing school. The last four years of Bush, who as a President’s son is surely part of the ELITE you claim the Left worships, I started a small PR agency for start-ups and small businesses only to watch them struggle in the end.<br><br>David Miller works for the Sovereign Citizens Movement, who are anti- government with white extremist elements. You sweet white boys on the Right have never been associated with murders have you? And NOW I suppose you will tell me the Klu Klux Klan is a leftist group, too.<br><br>Miller may be a nut, but he is your nut.<br><br>Who put the bullet through Rep. Raul Grijalva window? Who smashed in Giffords office door? Who is making death threats to Mitchell? Who is spitting on Barney Frank? And calling Congressmen niggers? Who said, “I’ll tell you who should be tortured and killed at Guantanamo: every filthy Democrat in the U.S. Congress. “? Your hero, Sean Hannity. <br><br>You see we already have an index of your hate speech. Why is it you don’t have one on the left?<br><br>I’d like to hang out longer with you civil folks that accuse me of having an ideology of murder and hate and call me a piece of shit. I came here specifically to find examples of leftist hate speech to provide balance to an article I was writing. <br><br>Instead I have found the opposite. Adieu.Mary Hanningtonhttp://www.vagabondguru.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6251675227852122352.post-57487697533929334102011-01-12T20:40:05.603-05:002011-01-12T20:40:05.603-05:00Thanks Rav:_T, I'll check that out.My biggest ...Thanks Rav:_T, I'll check that out.<br><br>My biggest issue with this whole affair (as you saw in my piece the other day) is the assignment of group blame. I think that's entirely inappropriate in America, where we should be judging people as individuals, not treating them as mere parts of a group and then holding whole groups responsible for the actions of one or two members of the group.<br><br>If we are really to begin group punishments, then we might as cut to the chase and start fighting it out because there's no such thing as justice and guilt/innocence are entirely meaningless.AndrewPricehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6251675227852122352.post-50857011330959203772011-01-12T18:04:47.398-05:002011-01-12T18:04:47.398-05:00Andrew, Ace of Spades HQ had a pretty good story o...Andrew, Ace of Spades HQ had a pretty good story on him and his craziness, plus David Corn's attempt to link us to him, a few days ago. He (Ace) laid out a pretty good legalistic argument for this blame game that you would appreciate--to wit, a tort or damages case can only be won by establishing four parts. First, you must show that X had an obligation; second, that X was negligent in this obligation; third, that this negligence led to an actual harm; and fourth, that there was an actual harm. Basically, the Left is trying to prove that conservatives, by forsaking civil dialogue for extremist rhetoric, caused the Tucson shooting, which would be the "actual harm"; but as Ace points out, they're missing number 3, which is that there was a direct causal relationship between the two. Obviously, they can't do it, and that's why Mary, the venerable Mr. Corn, and others are using this Miller nut to fill the gap. The full piece is at http://ace.mu.nu/ if you're interested; you may have to scroll down quite a bit, but it should still be up.RAV: T_noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6251675227852122352.post-14795038386689638212011-01-12T17:24:49.282-05:002011-01-12T17:24:49.282-05:00Rav: _T, I've never heard of this David Wynn M...Rav: _T, I've never heard of this David Wynn Miller, but holy cow! It sounds like his royal highness, the King of Hawaii needs a rubber room. . . stat.<br><br>It also sounds like Loughner would have been better off if he had listened to Scooby Doo instead. At least he would have been more coherent.AndrewPricehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6251675227852122352.post-73206001684253605702011-01-12T17:17:55.451-05:002011-01-12T17:17:55.451-05:00Oh, and since I guess I should be emulating the ex...Oh, and since I guess I should be emulating the example of my intellectual founder, please refer to me for the rest of the night as RAV: T_.RAV: T_noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6251675227852122352.post-17505840284763555622011-01-12T17:10:59.760-05:002011-01-12T17:10:59.760-05:00Oh, I was SO hoping you would bring up David Wynn ...Oh, I was SO hoping you would bring up David Wynn Miller (I'm sorry, HUMAN-DESIGNATE DAVID-WYNN: MILLER) I'll ignore the fact that you seem to think "Don't Tread On Me" flags are symbols of racism, the fact that Andrew never said conservatives have never used hateful or extreme language themselves, or the fact that you ignore me pointing out that your theories are full of holes, and focus on this one tidbit.<br><br>Two days ago, I wouldn't have had a clue what you were going on about, and still wouldn't except that another blogger heard these claims and had to dig up info on Miller to find out just who the heck he is. Apparently he describes himself as a "Plenipotentiary-Judge", an ambassador, banker, postmaster, King of Hawaii, and a genius. This obsession with grammar you speak of refers to his invention of the "Mathematical Interface for Language or Quantum-Math-Communications and Language or Correct-Language," which he claims is "for the stopping-claims of the Theft, Cheating, Fraud, Slavery and War." From Wikipedia, "Miller's language uses sentences that begin with prepositional phrases, using the word For, are at least thirteen words long, and have many more nouns than verbs. According to Miller, only nouns have legal authority. The language has an abundance of punctuation...According to Miller's teaching, the addition of hyphens and colons to one's name turns one from an ordinary, taxable human into a non-taxable “prepositional phrase.” They are distinguished from the names listed at birth in all capital letters (as on a birth certificate), which he claims turns one into a taxable Person (Corporation)." Wow, you're right! This is all stuff out of the conservative playbook! My God, how could I have been so blind??!! I had no idea the thoughts of us right-wingers turned around the sayings of a man we'd never even heard of.<br><br>Seriously, go ahead and explain how HUMAN-DESIGNATE DAVID-WYNN: MILLER is a right-winger and therefore links us to Loughner. I haven't seen anyone hang themselves with their own arguments lately, so this should be fun.T_Ravnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6251675227852122352.post-24361043830773468852011-01-12T17:00:09.545-05:002011-01-12T17:00:09.545-05:00Mary, It is true that you were civil and I apologi...Mary, It is true that you were civil and I apologize.AndrewPricehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6251675227852122352.post-58192042456656111322011-01-12T16:58:31.644-05:002011-01-12T16:58:31.644-05:00(continued)Do I think leftist hate rhetoric played...(continued)<br>Do I think leftist hate rhetoric played a roll in his decision? I doubt it. I think this guy was going to do what he was going to do no matter what people said. If no one ever said anything nasty, he would have fixated on Barney or Scooby Doo and he would have decided that they wanted him to kill her.<br><br>Do I think there is hate speech on the right? Not nearly as much as on the left, and you have to look much further out on the fringe to find it. And I would also argue that many of those people are not on the right in any event, they are in a nebulous area where they mix left, right and conspiracy theory to form an ignorant world view that is neither left nor right.<br><br>In terms of equating the left with murder, I am sorry, but that is accurate. The left loves to pretend that the things done in its name over and over again were always the result of some corruption of their beliefs, but that's not true. Each of those murderers named was a leftist, and was inspired by the same beliefs and impulses shared by the current left. The problem is that the left's ideology is premised on the idea that an anointed elite know what is best for humanity and they intend to force that on people, no matter what. And it doesn't take long to convert that into getting rid of those who stand in the way, which is where socialism always goes wrong. A philosophy that does not respect the rights and dignity of individuals and which subsumes them to the will of the government will always drift into areas where it sees its opponents as an obstacle to be eliminated.AndrewPricehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6251675227852122352.post-48391879167899104302011-01-12T16:58:10.780-05:002011-01-12T16:58:10.780-05:00Mary, First, I have not said that he acted in resp...Mary, <br><br>First, I have not said that he acted in response to leftist hate rhetoric. If you look, you will see that I repeatedly say that he is a nutjob who acted for his own reasons which had little to do with reality. It seems very clear right now that he shot her because he was crazy and he did not like her answer to a bizarro question he asked her in 2007.<br><br>What I have written here is a response to the left, which immediately jumped on this issue and exploited it to attack their boggeymen -- the same boogeymen you mention in your post, people like Sarah Palin and Glenn Beck. I am showing in this post, (1) that the facts show that he was more a leftist than a rightist, (2) the leftist media ran with the idea that he was a rightist even after these facts and came out, and (3) despite repeated assertion by the left that they have never engaged in "hate speech", it's actually very common among the left. I have provided a sampling of instances, such as where various leftists have called for the murder of people on the right.<br><br>Your argument that he is schizophrenic and therefore we should not consider what he reads or who he supports... but we should conclude he is on the right because of a crazy theory about grammar, is entirely illogical. Either we must judge him by his choices or we don't, we can't say "don't judge him for the choices that show him to be a leftist but judge him for the choices that I think show him to be a rightist." That's not an argument, that's wishful thinking.<br><br>Moreover, there is more evidence yet. For example, his friends have said that he was a John Kerry supporter and that he was a liberal. And let me add that his view of eliminating the dollar is closer to left than right because he's not advocating creating a gold standard, he's advocating some fantasy currency that everyone makes themselves. That's consistent with leftist thinking, which disdains currency as a tool of oppression.<br><br>(continued)AndrewPricehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6251675227852122352.post-39473449388504761662011-01-12T16:48:04.751-05:002011-01-12T16:48:04.751-05:00I believe I was civil in my commentary, yet Andrew...I believe I was civil in my commentary, yet Andrew has this to say of me "You are one of these leftist pieces of shit that has caused the very "atmosphere of hate" that you now complain about."<br><br>You are making a lot of assumptions.<br><br>I don't hate anyone. I just find you misguided and under informed.Mary Hanningtonhttp://www.vagabondguru.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6251675227852122352.post-39995521591228146032011-01-12T16:31:55.926-05:002011-01-12T16:31:55.926-05:00Loughner wrote about these things, whether he beli...Loughner wrote about these things, whether he believes them or not I don’t know. I know a fair amount about paranoid schizophrenics and they tend to fixate, but they often act inappropriately to ideas and see them in different ways from those of us who act appropriately. Their boundaries are different.<br><br>Why do those on the right fly confederate flags and carry “Don’t Tread On Me” signs if they don’t long for the old days? Pre-Civil War? Loughner speaks of government control through grammar, an idea put forth by David Wynn Miller, who was certainly far right as is the idea of basing our currency only on gold.<br><br>I never said I thought that the killings were the result of right wing ideas.<br><br>What is being suggested here is that it was leftist hate speech that spurred him on. And furthermore the author goes on to equate the left with murder and hate.<br><br>And you are STILL suggesting that Loughner is a liberal, who went after Giffords because she was formerly a Republican?<br><br>I am sorry, but I find your theories moronic.Mary Hanningtonhttp://www.vagabondguru.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6251675227852122352.post-61858178927123665332011-01-12T15:05:16.954-05:002011-01-12T15:05:16.954-05:00Yeah, what T_Rav said! LOL!Seriously, Mary, listen...Yeah, what T_Rav said! LOL!<br><br>Seriously, Mary, listen to T_Rav, he's taken the time to try to teach you something and he's done a very good job of it. If you drop your prejudices and OPEN YOUR MIND, you may realize a lot by reading what he's written.AndrewPricehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6251675227852122352.post-71146117764829072752011-01-12T14:45:12.261-05:002011-01-12T14:45:12.261-05:00"As far as Loughner is concerned, yes there a..."As far as Loughner is concerned, yes there are some leftist Ideas surrounding him, but you conveniently leave out the fact that Aryan Nation reads "Mein Kampf", that his not recognizing the "second" constitution (ratified after the civil war where amendments freed the slaves), his mistrust of money and the Fed, and his belief that the government uses mind control are all ideas from the far-right."<br><br>Mary, this is an excellent example of begging the question. You assume that 1) These are the ideas of the political Right, 2) Loughner believes them, therefore 3) Right-wing ideas are responsible for the Tucson shooting. Your conclusion is unproven, however, because your first assumption is false. It's been demonstrated repeatedly that Loughner's political ideas, to the extent that he had any, were a mishmash borrowed from the extreme Left, the extreme Right, and ones he got up out of his own head. He also listed "The Communist Manifesto" as a favorite book of his, had as a favorite YouTube video someone burning an American flag, and was heard to talk about the flag and the Constitution as restrictions on his personal freedom. Does that sound like a right-winger to you? <br><br>Also, you ask "why did he target a Democrat?" I'll turn your own question around on you. As you may be aware, Giffords is a former Republican who has repeatedly taken up moderate positions on issues such as gun rights and illegal immigration--very much a "Blue Dog." If Loughner was out to kill someone on the Left, why wouldn't he go after someone undisputably on that end of the spectrum, like Barbara Boxer or Nancy Pelosi--or, if he's on a tight travel budget, just take a one-tank trip within the state and knock off AZ Rep. Raul Grijalva, a proud progressive and darling of La Raza? <br><br>I expect this to have absolutely no impact on you, but hopefully someone with the capacity for intelligent debate will read it and take these points into account.T_Ravnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6251675227852122352.post-18152937811148081552011-01-12T14:17:23.495-05:002011-01-12T14:17:23.495-05:00"These are the ideological blood-brothers of ...<i>"These are the ideological blood-brothers of Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Che, and so many more -- hate and murder are deeply ensconced within their ideology."<br><br>AND what do you call that?</i><br><br>What do I call that? <i>A socialist.</i> Want me to spell it for you?AndrewPricehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6251675227852122352.post-71619204331205826742011-01-12T14:15:56.709-05:002011-01-12T14:15:56.709-05:00Wow, another leftist troll. Do you know Bruno? Y...Wow, another leftist troll. Do you know Bruno? You two should hold a bakesale for hate or something! :-)<br><br>Let me respond with a couple points to your babble.<br><br>First, you are taking nutjobs and trying to say they represent the American right. I am pointing out supposedly respectable members of the left -- Congressman and journalists. There's a huge difference. The difference is that the people I'm talking about drive little minds like yours. The people you're talking about sit in wooden shacks in the woods playing with themselves and don't influence anyone.<br><br>Secondly, I hate to break this to you, but Hitler was a leftist, not a rightist. I know that your kind likes to disclaim all leftists who end up on the wrong side of history, but he was clearly one of you.<br><br>Third, what calls itself the far right these days, is the far left, they just don't get it. All those little black-shirted "anarchists" are advocating socialism.<br><br>Fourth, his friends have said he was a leftist. They are themselves leftists. They said this to a leftist magazine (Mother Jones). Unless you believe that they are all lying to discredit themselves, then he's a leftist. Deal with it.<br><br>Fifth, your statement that somehow hatred against Bush was justified tells us all we need to know about you. You are one of these leftist pieces of shit that has caused the very "atmosphere of hate" that you now complain about. You are to blame. The guilt is yours. Now go to your room and think about what you did.<br><br>Oh, and thanks for coming.AndrewPricehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6251675227852122352.post-25967587368442773432011-01-12T14:09:46.448-05:002011-01-12T14:09:46.448-05:00"These are the ideological blood-brothers of ..."These are the ideological blood-brothers of Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Che, and so many more -- hate and murder are deeply ensconced within their ideology."<br><br>AND what do you call that?Mary Hanningtonhttp://www.vagabondguru.comnoreply@blogger.com