tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6251675227852122352.post5891929917226306720..comments2024-01-05T06:18:18.086-05:00Comments on CommentaramaPolitics: Politicking While BlackAndrewPricehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comBlogger50125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6251675227852122352.post-65877310990595586842013-05-02T18:37:22.535-04:002013-05-02T18:37:22.535-04:00Trayanmax,
I doubt that another national leader f...Trayanmax,<br /><br />I doubt that another national leader for the black community will emerge. The black community's problems are too low level for such a leader to be effective. <br /><br />I think the most important people are those putting in work on the ground in poorer neighborhoods. They might be preachers, teachers or just volunteers. A lot of the guys on tv just play leaders on tv and are oriented on the media, political parties and deep pocketed corporations rather than people who could use help.Anthonyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16124128949343301445noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6251675227852122352.post-2302564458414620722013-05-02T15:10:03.725-04:002013-05-02T15:10:03.725-04:00Anthony, I think we probably agree. There isn'...Anthony, I think we probably agree. There isn't anything government can do to make people better, but it would help if "the black community" stopped excusing misbehavior within it's own ranks.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6251675227852122352.post-63479167938756288062013-05-02T14:51:36.543-04:002013-05-02T14:51:36.543-04:00Anthony, allow me to press you further and ask you...Anthony, allow me to press you further and ask you what those sorts of changes might look like. Clearly as we've discussed upthread, pushing guilt onto the white population doesn't do a damned thing except breed pockets of resentment. Who are the leaders that might step forth (real or generalized)? What might they say or do? tryanmaxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09881154741574720094noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6251675227852122352.post-62325536903108325572013-05-02T14:46:48.131-04:002013-05-02T14:46:48.131-04:00Tryanmax,
Sometimes I think people interpret thin...Tryanmax,<br /><br />Sometimes I think people interpret things in ways which piss them off but which are open to other interpretations. <br /><br />For example, blacks who assume the tea party is a white reaction to a black president ignore the fact that there was a similar populist backlash against Hillarycare and Bush's immigration proposals.<br /><br />As for policy proposals, I haven't made many policy proposals in this thread, but that is because I think the problems of the modern black community cannot be addressed by the government.<br /><br />Too many of us are making poor choices in our daily lives. Government/political parties can help around the edges (nods towards school choice) but much of what happens is going to be determined not by the efforts of the government, but those of individuals, families and communities.Anthonyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16124128949343301445noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6251675227852122352.post-7228088719774877162013-05-02T09:32:19.125-04:002013-05-02T09:32:19.125-04:00Anthony, I have a very hard time understanding you...Anthony, I have a very hard time understanding your argument. Regardless what you mean to say, what is coming across is basically that because the <i>status quo</i> is unsurprising we ought not react to it. It sounds like a tacit approval of the <i>status quo</i>, but without any defense of it. <br /><br />What you do not do is express whether or why there ought or ought not be any expectation or desire for something different. In short, whatever your thoughts on the matter are, they are being masked by your impeccable ability to describe things as they are.tryanmaxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09881154741574720094noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6251675227852122352.post-2290243029931231702013-05-02T03:49:49.127-04:002013-05-02T03:49:49.127-04:00I've got no problem with pop culture. If ther...I've got no problem with pop culture. If there's money to be made, people will make it, even if that means playing to a stereotype. The big problem is parents not raising their kids. <br /><br />I agree about the enabling thing though. If some idiot steps out of line, I've got no problem with them being hammered. It's better if a criminal is in the grave or a cell then on the streets.Anthonyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16124128949343301445noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6251675227852122352.post-49661308910987804512013-05-02T03:37:39.094-04:002013-05-02T03:37:39.094-04:00Remember Bork? Conservatives of any color shouldn...Remember Bork? Conservatives of any color shouldn't expect hugs and kisses from liberals. Thomas was a conservative who had a short record, knew better than to give unnecessarily detailed answers and was black so unlike Bork he got through.<br /><br />I agree about the more venomous when aimed at blacks and women thing though. What would be socially unacceptable in any other context becomes acceptable if the target has the wrong politics. I'd say that's a bipartisan thing though. If one is a female politician one should expect beauty, age and weight to come up (taunts from opponents, praise from allies). If one is a black politician prepare to be called the cats paw of some white dude/a traitor to one's race/not a real member.Anthonyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16124128949343301445noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6251675227852122352.post-35171363437922785202013-05-01T21:40:04.072-04:002013-05-01T21:40:04.072-04:00P.S. On West, I think K's point is that any ti...P.S. On West, I think K's point is that any time you get a black conservatives, the whole left-wing smear machine does their best to take them out. I do agree with that. And the example I point to is not West, who is a bomb thrower, but Clarence Thomas who is a rather brilliant man but whom the left has been after since his confirmation hearing. He's been called every derogatory name in the book and they like to pretend he's stupid. They've gone after his wife as well. Etc.<br /><br />I don't think this kind of vile misconduct is uniquely aimed at black conservatives, but it seems to be a little more venomous when aimed at black and female conservatives.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6251675227852122352.post-7884197828762538412013-05-01T21:36:41.046-04:002013-05-01T21:36:41.046-04:00Anthony, I agree that the "community" ca...Anthony, I agree that the "community" can't fix people, BUT it can stop being an enabler. It can stop providing ready-made excuses, stop supporting misconduct, and start taking an interest in helping those who do want to be helped. Basically, help those who want to be saved and stop excusing those who don't.<br /><br />It's the same problem in the "white trash" community -- too many people are ready to enable them by excusing their behavior. Country music and MTV actually mythologize their misconduct to a large degree.<br />AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6251675227852122352.post-39146318788142823722013-05-01T20:02:17.298-04:002013-05-01T20:02:17.298-04:00K,
Allen West was a weird reincarnation of Alan G...K,<br /><br />Allen West was a weird reincarnation of Alan Grayson (weird because Grayson is white, liberal and uh, not dead). He came in during a wave election, became prominent on the political scene due to his need to run towards tv cameras and give memorable soundbites, then failed to get reelected in part because his constituents weren't impressed by his theatrics. <br /><br />Like Grayson, West got a high enough profile during his short time in office that someone will probably arrange for another (safer) seat for him down the line.Anthonyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16124128949343301445noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6251675227852122352.post-88754374672225519762013-05-01T19:54:50.512-04:002013-05-01T19:54:50.512-04:00Andrew said:
If the black community is willing to...Andrew said:<br /><br />If the black community is willing to do self-reflection and they realize that there really is nothing stopping them from getting ahead except themselves, then they can turn the ship around. (Or more and more of them will at least escape the sinking ship and go prosper apart from the community.) But if they choose to see their fates as decided because of racism or whatever, then nothing will change.<br /><br />Right now, I see too few saying, "Hey, we need to fix this" and too many saying, "Look what THEY've done to us."<br />------<br />There's no 'we' to the fixing. Community action was needed to kill Jim Crow, but the success or failure of individuals relies on the decisions of individuals. Some will proper, many will die. <br /><br />The prosperous can help the struggling to an extent, but one cannot save someone despite themselves.Anthonyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16124128949343301445noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6251675227852122352.post-32868911625324584022013-05-01T19:17:12.956-04:002013-05-01T19:17:12.956-04:00K, LOL! True.K, LOL! True.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6251675227852122352.post-45991889085416941502013-05-01T19:06:22.247-04:002013-05-01T19:06:22.247-04:00I happen to agree that blacks are being systematic...I happen to agree that blacks are being systematically discrimated against. My favorite examples were Alan West and Mia Love. Candidates I gave money to in the past election. The Dems, including Soros went batship insane to keep them out of congress. I'd really like to see West make it into the Senate and Love get into congress ASAP. It's important that the senate and congress "look like America". Khttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16289856510554336990noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6251675227852122352.post-18427485357381617672013-05-01T18:16:03.200-04:002013-05-01T18:16:03.200-04:00tryanmax, That's actually a pretty succinct wa...tryanmax, That's actually a pretty succinct way to put what I hear a lot from people my age and younger.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6251675227852122352.post-24637851252673745412013-05-01T18:11:56.130-04:002013-05-01T18:11:56.130-04:00A friend of mine stated it very well the other day...A friend of mine stated it very well the other day. I'm about to butcher it, but he basically said, "I feel very sorry for past generations of blacks and all they had to endure. But I don't feel sorry at all for the current generation. They've been handed loads of opportunity and squandered all of it."tryanmaxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09881154741574720094noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6251675227852122352.post-34692518988336257002013-05-01T17:57:20.638-04:002013-05-01T17:57:20.638-04:00tryanmax, I think there are several reasons young ...tryanmax, I think there are several reasons young whites reject the idea that there is racism anymore or that they are responsible for it:<br /><br />1. They don't personally discriminate. Their friends don't either. They probably know of no one who has. They have never benefited from it either. So why should they feel guilty?<br /><br />YET, they've been told that they DO discriminate... "we are all racists." That makes it clear that this is a false charge. It was a real mistake for black leaders to try to indict all whites rather than the guilty ones because it's squandered all the goodwill they had on this issue.<br /><br />2. Moreover, the cry of racism has become a reflex action for black leaders who are trying to escape the consequences of their own misbehavior or who want to smear political opponents. That means the word is no longer seen as having any real meaning. It just means, "a politicized distraction." It's the boy who cried wolf.<br /><br />3. Young whites feel that they are victims of discrimination themselves because of affirmative action. So to be told by wealthy black politicians or college administrators that you low-class white kid are rotten because you discriminate and you need to sacrifice to atone only generates anger.<br /><br />Moreover, modern generations are much more cynical and they realize that life isn't fair. So they don't respond to the "but they weren't fair to me" argument that racism relies upon. Basically, the modern response to "I wasn't treated fairly" is "deal with it."<br /><br />4. Few people alive and working (or in school) today had anything to do with racism or Jim Crow. That is as distant in the history books as the Magna Carta, and people don't like paying for other people's historical crimes.<br /><br />5. For half a century now, the government has foisted affirmative action us and given largess to the black community in the way of reparations. At some point, people say enough. 50+ years is enough. In younger people's minds, you got your free crap for 50+ years now stop being greedy. And they see no reason why young blacks who were born in the 1980s and 1990s should be getting anything.<br />AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6251675227852122352.post-29668297810272097612013-05-01T17:33:44.302-04:002013-05-01T17:33:44.302-04:00the cry of racism no longer works
One can simply ...<i>the cry of racism no longer works</i><br /><br />One can simply look at the culture to see how it is getting harder to convince young whites that racism is a real problem, let alone one that they are complicit in. The current stereotype of an overt racist is an unaccomplished malcontent who can barely affect his own life, so good luck convincing anyone that he controls any levers of power. Meanwhile, young whites flock to movies starring black actors, download mp3s by black artists, and cheer on black athletes, and you're going to tell them they are racist with a straight face? Did you mention that the president is black? At best, you may convince them that someone else is a racist (see prior stereotype), but not them.<br /><br />Besides, trying to make someone feel guilty about their unintentional racism can only take you so far. People reject things that make them feel guilty. Just ask the Catholic Church. Ultimately, pushing ideas about "white privilege" will fail, either because they push the guilt or they are just pathetic. Take a look at <a href="http://www.deanza.edu/faculty/lewisjulie/White%20Priviledge%20Unpacking%20the%20Invisible%20Knapsack.pdf" rel="nofollow">Unpacking the Invisible Knapsack</a> just to see how low the bar is set. Half the list I can refute with first- and second-hand experiences, as I suspect most could probably do. And the remainder…if it were my gripe, I'd expect to be told to "cowboy up."<br />tryanmaxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09881154741574720094noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6251675227852122352.post-83944850669687205362013-05-01T17:24:15.054-04:002013-05-01T17:24:15.054-04:00Anthony, No problem, it wasn't really the big ...Anthony, No problem, it wasn't really the big point.<br /><br /><br />As an aside, did anybody see the story about the 2 year old who got shot by the 5 year old with a rifle the 5 year old got as a gift? Who the hell gives a 5 year old a real rifle as a gift?!<br /><br />Unbelievable.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6251675227852122352.post-60297971526227681982013-05-01T17:06:57.121-04:002013-05-01T17:06:57.121-04:00I stand corrected on the Dixie Chicks.I stand corrected on the Dixie Chicks.Anthonyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16124128949343301445noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6251675227852122352.post-41107300106904164242013-05-01T16:28:30.060-04:002013-05-01T16:28:30.060-04:00Well, to be precise Maines said in a concert in Eu...Well, to be precise Maines said in a concert in Europe "We're ashamed Bush is from Texas".<br /><br />In 2003. <br />Shortly after the start of the Iraq War. <br />Not bright.<br /><br />And then they sort of found themselves in the middle of a hole and kept digging.Kithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01453591141757808708noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6251675227852122352.post-59173431295477889852013-05-01T16:26:54.483-04:002013-05-01T16:26:54.483-04:00True. That was a key addition. I really don'...True. That was a key addition. I really don't think their being liberal was the problem.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6251675227852122352.post-43475999450901141782013-05-01T16:23:58.689-04:002013-05-01T16:23:58.689-04:00"A lot of country stars are liberals."
I..."A lot of country stars are liberals."<br />I know. And I think a lot of people would be surprised at just how many are liberal. I mentioned Paisley, Nelson, and Kirstofferson. There is some evidence that Johnny Cash was a liberal as well (as well as a deeply devout evangelical Christian). <br />There are others as well.<br /><br />"The Dixie Chicks also made the huge mistake of attacking the American military while doing a concert overseas."<br /><br />I think you need to restate that as :"The Dixie Chicks also made the huge mistake of attacking the American military <b>as it was in the middle of fighting a war</b> while doing a concert overseas."Kithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01453591141757808708noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6251675227852122352.post-76065478173847951562013-05-01T16:16:58.132-04:002013-05-01T16:16:58.132-04:00Kit, A lot of country stars are liberals. The Dix...Kit, A lot of country stars are liberals. The Dixie Chicks also made the huge mistake of attacking the American military while doing a concert overseas. That NEVER plays well in America.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6251675227852122352.post-56740130863735620472013-05-01T16:15:35.337-04:002013-05-01T16:15:35.337-04:00Anthony, Let me add one more piece to the puzzle. ...Anthony, Let me add one more piece to the puzzle. For generations, whites have been complicit in this whole thing because white liberals preached identity politics, paranoia and dependence. They promised they would fix everything. Conservatives went along with this and let liberals spend large amounts of money on "black issues" and didn't even fight back on the rhetoric for fear of being called racist. That let the dependence bubble form and allowed blacks to remain inside the bubble for the most part.<br /><br />Thus, blacks came to define progress through government money, government jobs and laws in their favor. They also had a certain cultural cache that exaggerated their importance.<br /><br />BUT the younger generations of whites (mine and younger) are done with that. They no longer see that they have any obligation to atone for the past and they are simply moving on. It's not about anger or racism, it's just a simple fact to us -- "Nobody owes anyone anything, so you better make it on your own or we'll just leave you behind."<br /><br />That means the cry of racism no longer works and it means the government spigot is being turned off. Government jobs will no longer be as safe, pay is likely to start being cut in the next decade, and things like affirmative action are coming to an end and there won't be any more race-based favors.<br /><br />The cultural cache also has ended because Hispanics have become the new "go to" minority in Madison Avenue and Hollywood.<br /><br />In effect, everything the black community counted as progress will now slowly erode. <br /><br />At the same time, Hispanics are starting to leap over blacks in terms of income and aspiration. That means an increasing focus of our country will be on their needs and views rather than those of blacks. That also means that blacks will likely find themselves as the bottom of the class structure in this country very soon.<br /><br />That is what I mean by "hitting bottom."AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6251675227852122352.post-22576235940812029212013-05-01T16:12:14.981-04:002013-05-01T16:12:14.981-04:00NOTE: It was the Dixie Chicks that called Toby Kei...NOTE: It was the Dixie Chicks that called Toby Keith's fans "rednecks".Kithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01453591141757808708noreply@blogger.com