tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6251675227852122352.post6406926467921672468..comments2024-01-05T06:18:18.086-05:00Comments on CommentaramaPolitics: The New Ryan Budget: Pros and ConsAndrewPricehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comBlogger35125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6251675227852122352.post-78073305050301135452013-12-15T22:14:09.457-05:002013-12-15T22:14:09.457-05:00Anthony,
Azula was closer to the sane during the ...Anthony,<br /><br />Azula was closer to the sane during the last episode of <i>Avatar: The Last Airbender</i>.Kithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01453591141757808708noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6251675227852122352.post-4280891408572212032013-12-15T22:13:36.792-05:002013-12-15T22:13:36.792-05:00"I listened to Rush yesterday. He posited tha..."I listened to Rush yesterday. He posited that Republicans in Washington wouldn't kill Obamacare if they had the presidency and a legislative majority and noted that while 'It doesn't matter' he had just learned that Paul Ryan once worked for Boehner."<br /><br />Yep. Rush is officially in Cuckoo Land. Kithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01453591141757808708noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6251675227852122352.post-44612169822441334912013-12-15T02:00:52.144-05:002013-12-15T02:00:52.144-05:00Anthony, I heard that as well. Rush has lost his ...Anthony, I heard that as well. Rush has lost his mind. There is no way the Republicans wouldn't repeal Obamacare. Rush has become like Savage, he spends all his time attacking his friends with false charges because that's what his fringy audience wants.DUQnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6251675227852122352.post-85363213723997411172013-12-14T14:30:36.961-05:002013-12-14T14:30:36.961-05:00I listened to Rush yesterday. He posited that Repu...I listened to Rush yesterday. He posited that Republicans in Washington wouldn't kill Obamacare if they had the presidency and a legislative majority and noted that while 'It doesn't matter' he had just learned that Paul Ryan once worked for Boehner.<br /><br />So much win. Anyone that does anything seems to be setting themselves up as a RINO.Anthonyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16124128949343301445noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6251675227852122352.post-51423326434037181622013-12-13T23:05:34.837-05:002013-12-13T23:05:34.837-05:00Andrew, I've never thought of stacks of books ...Andrew, I've never thought of stacks of books and lengthy papers as "cute," but...eh, maybe with the right glasses and a fake ponytail, and I should really cut myself off right now.T-Ravhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10861218035729479354noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6251675227852122352.post-24590225198310517242013-12-13T21:59:20.398-05:002013-12-13T21:59:20.398-05:00If you want to know why we call certain segments o...If you want to know why we call certain segments of the right "The Fringe", here is why.These are comments posted to the Paul Ryan facebook page. All bolds or underlines are mine.<br /><br />"Paul Ryan is a weak and timid leader! This budget deal is so in line with Democrat ideology that the Dems are barely critical of it." <br />Then why did House Dem Whip Steny Hoyer vote against it and a liberal on NPR this morning call it "a conservative bill". I should note this is one of the <b>nicer</b> ones.<br /><br />"If we insist on a Republican approval by a Democrat Senate, we are doomed!" <br />Me: Uhm... split government?<br /><br />"Don't cut military benefits, social security and medicare - Increase those and delete the EPA, Dept, of Ed., and the phony grant money to study the mating habits of democrat slugs." <br />Me: 1st, this bill DOES NOT CUT SS OR MEDICARE and 2nd, I thought medicare and social security were in desperate need of reform or they would become insolvent. <br /><br />"Liar, liar, liar. You are a filthy liar and I will never, ever vote for you. Id rather vote for a freakin' liberal rat thsn you, because at least I'd know what I was getting. <b>I hope you choke....filthy man!!</b>" <br />Me: Stay classy, fringe.Kithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01453591141757808708noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6251675227852122352.post-41597306645317662172013-12-13T20:35:02.924-05:002013-12-13T20:35:02.924-05:00An all day affair doesn't sound so bad. Was t...An all day affair doesn't sound so bad. Was this schoolwork cute? :DAndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6251675227852122352.post-59887239561598192772013-12-13T20:31:47.637-05:002013-12-13T20:31:47.637-05:00Bev, there certainly is that angle to it, which I ...Bev, there certainly is that angle to it, which I hadn't thought of. Of course, the Democrats have proven to be very clever at disguising these as goody entitlements that will save starving kids, and why won't the House GOP cooperate? And so on. But the way things are now, we might be able to spin it right.T-Ravhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10861218035729479354noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6251675227852122352.post-8205354345855949862013-12-13T20:18:25.352-05:002013-12-13T20:18:25.352-05:00"But it still bothers me on a fundamental lev..."But it still bothers me on a fundamental level that the government presumes to make you pay for using a private service."<br /><br />Isn't that a sales tax?Kithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01453591141757808708noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6251675227852122352.post-49931344203097331552013-12-13T19:52:14.628-05:002013-12-13T19:52:14.628-05:00Koshcat, that's probably the most salient poin...Koshcat, that's probably the most salient point. None of this is going to register with the public in its gut, not in the way that ObamaCare and the millions of people losing their coverage has been doing. To that extent, I agree with those who have been saying we don't need to divert our focus to the budget.<br /><br />(Incidentally, sorry for the lack of responses, everyone. Schoolwork called, and it ended up being an all-day affair.)T-Ravhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10861218035729479354noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6251675227852122352.post-49859923131388766822013-12-13T19:45:29.111-05:002013-12-13T19:45:29.111-05:00Thanks, tryanmax. I largely agree with you about t...Thanks, tryanmax. I largely agree with you about the procedural thing. It isn't such a big deal on its own, except that the Republicans, with few exceptions, seem unwilling to play the same fast-and-loose game with the rules. You can't win when you refuse to play the other side's hardball on principle.<br /><br />On the fees, I suppose it's not <i>that</i> qualitatively different from taxes. But it still bothers me on a fundamental level that the government presumes to make you pay for using a private service. I suppose one can come up with arguments for why it's not that bad, but they're not satisfying to me.T-Ravhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10861218035729479354noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6251675227852122352.post-2159032136616453502013-12-13T18:18:09.592-05:002013-12-13T18:18:09.592-05:00Excuse me, I'm being unfair as when Caesar cro...Excuse me, I'm being unfair as when Caesar crossed the Rubicon he knew what he was doing and the moment he stepped foot across the river he would face the full force of Pompey and the Senate. Kithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01453591141757808708noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6251675227852122352.post-88814436839060149452013-12-13T17:55:06.304-05:002013-12-13T17:55:06.304-05:00In October I guess you could say, with all due res...In October I guess you could say, with all due respect to Julius Caesar, "<i>Alea Iacta Fuit</i>". ("The Die was Cast".)<br /><br />Kithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01453591141757808708noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6251675227852122352.post-89095468911745237952013-12-13T17:37:54.048-05:002013-12-13T17:37:54.048-05:00Kit, I read them too. And National Journal. What...Kit, I read them too. And <i>National Journal</i>. What's interesting to me is how few pundits apparently bother reading about this stuff. I see it very often where the cause of something is obvious if you've been reading the behind the scenes stuff, but the talkers act like it came out of the blue.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6251675227852122352.post-61427042572366607922013-12-13T17:36:21.386-05:002013-12-13T17:36:21.386-05:00Also, from what you are describing it appears the ...Also, from what you are describing it appears the GOP Establishment pulled a <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Cannae" rel="nofollow">Cannae</a>.<br /><br /><br />For those of you who don't know, Cannae was one of Rome's worst defeats. <br />The Carthaginians <a href="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/28/Battle_of_Cannae%2C_215_BC_-_Initial_Roman_attack.gif" rel="nofollow">baited them by putting their rear forward and let the Romans attack</a> only to <a href="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/51/Battle_cannae_destruction.gif" rel="nofollow">pull back their center so they could envelope them and crush the Romans.</a> Kithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01453591141757808708noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6251675227852122352.post-52703679742921155142013-12-13T17:27:32.365-05:002013-12-13T17:27:32.365-05:00I usually read The Hill.
Also, I enjoy reading a...I usually read <i>The Hill</i>. <br /><br />Also, I enjoy reading about "behind the scenes intrigue". :) Kithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01453591141757808708noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6251675227852122352.post-40657411670190863682013-12-13T17:23:49.074-05:002013-12-13T17:23:49.074-05:00Kit, It really has been. Like I said, the new lin...Kit, It really has been. Like I said, the new line (besides, "THOSE DIRTY COMMIE RINOS BETRAYED BY FIGHTING BACK!) is that it doesn't matter if they ever win another primary, they have already won their victory. Yeah, right.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6251675227852122352.post-3342543469649896392013-12-13T17:21:56.236-05:002013-12-13T17:21:56.236-05:00BTW, I'm not making this stuff up, it's ou...BTW, I'm not making this stuff up, it's out there to be seen if you pay attention to articles that don't normally make the headlines -- Drudge in particular caters to the fringe, so he likes to keep these "high-information voters" in the dark about their defeats as much as possible.<br /><br />Here, for example, is an article talking about McConnell taking on Jim DeMint's Senate Conservative Fund and firing companies who work for them. <a href="http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/mcconnell-fires-a-shot-across-the-bow-of-the-tea-party/" rel="nofollow">LINK</a>.<br /><br />It's all been fascinating if you're into behind the scenes intrigue.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6251675227852122352.post-71039060699745803702013-12-13T17:16:45.355-05:002013-12-13T17:16:45.355-05:00Its amazing how quick the fringe went into a disor...Its amazing how quick the fringe went into a disorganized route once the GOP slapped them down. Kithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01453591141757808708noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6251675227852122352.post-27821965156743854762013-12-13T17:14:27.517-05:002013-12-13T17:14:27.517-05:00tryanmax, In all honesty, what the fringe doesn...tryanmax, In all honesty, what the fringe doesn't want to believe is that the GOP leadership was part of the fringe... until the rest of the fringe went insane. These people shared the same views and advocated similar tactics. They were all part of the same team (the fringe idea of this RINO establishment keeping reel 'merkicans down has been a myth since the mid-1980s).<br /><br />Where things changed was when the leadership realized that the fringe is genuinely unbalanced and cares only about their tantrum. The first big sign of this came when Boehner and Ryan tried to create tax deals that imploded because the fringe wanted nothing to happen... ever.<br /><br />Then they started trying to primary anyone they could, no matter how conservative they were. That was probably what sparked the idea that something had to be done. Next, they stupidly overreached and attacked people like Tom Coburn, Charles Krauthammer and Paul Ryan as RINOs.<br /><br />That's the moment everything changed. Those people (Coburn, Krauthammer and a bunch of writers) washed their hands of the fringe, and they bitch slapped Cruz hard. At the same time, the GOP leadership ran a couple tests of their strategy to fight back (see e.g. Wyoming) and learned how to fight the fringe. Then they let the fringe have the shutdown and exposed them as frauds: the fringe predicted that the Democrats would fold... they didn't. They predicted the public would jump up and support us... they didn't. Instead, the shutdown drove the party to historic lows. The fringe didn't even claim ownership of their stupid actions. Instead, half the fringers started screaming the Boehner is the one who wanted the shutdown (something they had advocated only days before) and the other half went silent. That's the smell of weakness.<br /><br />After that debacle, the fringe tried to regroup by coming together to knock off McConnell on the ludicrous basis that he's the reason the shutdown (which they now claimed they never wanted) failed. On almost the same day, Rush, Hannity, the rest of talk radio, Sarah Palin, Norquist, Freedom works, etc. all came out in opposition to McConnell... the RINO.<br /><br />That's when the GOP leadership finally launched the counterattack. They all endorsed McConnell, they cut off funding to fringers, and they fired groups who had GOP contracts who were working for fringers. So far, the establishment has won everything and the fringe is in retreat... and whining about loyalty.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6251675227852122352.post-1291816100751892852013-12-13T16:51:22.256-05:002013-12-13T16:51:22.256-05:00Koshcat, I agree. And it's a win if it keeps ...Koshcat, I agree. And it's a win if it keeps our side form shooting themselves in the foot again by trying another shutdown.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6251675227852122352.post-59836469193278989242013-12-13T15:27:52.385-05:002013-12-13T15:27:52.385-05:00Maybe it doesn't really answer the initial que...Maybe it doesn't really answer the initial question, but I think the GOP didn't fight the fringe sooner because they didn't want to contribute to the infighting and the bad optics stemming from that, as well as hoping it would die down on its own. Now we've reached a point where it's more than clear it won't die down and the optics for pushing against the tea party couldn't be better. tryanmaxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09881154741574720094noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6251675227852122352.post-18676004955037788972013-12-13T15:10:09.069-05:002013-12-13T15:10:09.069-05:00I think overall this is a win for the GOP in the p...I think overall this is a win for the GOP in the public eye. It makes Ryan look like someone who is trying to build bridges unlike the WH idiot. It is not a perfect bill but a compromise. Nobody likes a compromise because you had to give something up to get it. Changing tax bills with just an up/down vote in the senate is a win if the GOP can get the chamber.<br /><br />Most importantly is that most of the public doesn't care about "budget plans". This takes that issue off the table (and news) for awhile and allows the ACA to continue dying the death of a million pin pricks.Koshcathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00552108950848576633noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6251675227852122352.post-19738319452330239112013-12-13T13:51:37.096-05:002013-12-13T13:51:37.096-05:00Kit, I'm not sure what has motivated the GOP t...Kit, I'm not sure what has motivated the GOP to fight back yet, but they have. It could be self-preservation, it could be they are sick of losing, it could be they simply don't see governing by tantrum as a decent thing to do. It's probably a combination.<br /><br />In any event, they are fighting back now and they are fighting back hard. And it's interesting to see the fringe's reaction. In the comments sections of various blogs they are laughing it off or whining about the GOP not being loyal... irony of the highest order. Their leaders, however, are panicked and are retreating everywhere they are pushed. I said before that the McConnell battle will be critical, especially after all of Talk Radio and Palin jumped on the challenger's bandwagon. But now they seem to be fleeing in droves. The new fight they've chosen is John Cornyn in Texas. But they can't win that either, so look for a similar ending there. Earlier this week, I saw the ultimate in expectation management in which they tried to explain that even if they didn't win a single one of the 16 primary challenges they are making against GOP people, it would still be a win because <i>somethingsomething</i>. And now the Chamber of Commerce is planning to support primary challenges against fringe Congressmen, which has the fringe screaming bloody murder. Interesting times. Lot's going on behind the scenes.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6251675227852122352.post-60786227137371100572013-12-13T13:36:22.046-05:002013-12-13T13:36:22.046-05:00Andrew,
Well, I think the realization of both par...Andrew,<br /><br />Well, I think the realization of both parties that they will have a split government until 2017 has caused at least the GOP leadership to push against the Fringe.<br /><br />That, and the Fringe going "a bridge too far" in attacking the leadership in primary races (McConnell). Kithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01453591141757808708noreply@blogger.com