The left are liars and hypocrites. No surprises there. But the last couple days have been extreme, even for them. I'll deal with the reason they've flipped out tomorrow morning, so as not to clutter this post. In the meantime, today I’ve collected some information they won't like: examples of leftist hate. I apologize in advance for the vile language (NSFW), but I will be quoting lots of leftists.1. The Shooter Is A Leftist
Before we dig into leftist hate, let me point out that this shooter was by no means a right-winger. All the evidence puts him firmly on the left:
None of these are consistent with him being a right-winger. Indeed, the only thing consistent with him being on the modern right is vague demands about abandoning the dollar because it is not backed by gold, BUT he then talks about everyone making their own currency -- which is more akin to Marxist thinking, which disdains currency as a tool of oppression.● The shooter’s favorite books include The Communist Manifesto, Mein Kampf, and The Republic, which are all leftist books.
● He's a 9/11 truther.
● He was an intolerant atheist who wrote a diatribe against the military handing out miniature Bibles to recruits.
● Classmate Caitie Parker, who knew him in high school and college and was in a band with him, has stated: “As I knew him he was left wing, quite liberal and oddly obsessed with the 2012 prophecy.”
● His favorite video on YouTube was someone burning the American flag.
2. The Left/Media Ignore The Truth So They Can Attack
Despite this evidence coming out fairly quickly, the left and their friends in the MSM jumped right out and claimed it was hateful right wing rhetoric that was to blame. Here are some samples of their claims (note the emphasis on boogeywoman Sarah Palin):
There are literally thousands of more examples, as this became a liberal talking point. Note the key themes, this was because of an "atmosphere of hate" created by the right.● Markos Moulitsas, founder of the DailyKos, sent the following tweet: “Mission accomplished, Sarah Palin.”
● New Jersey Democratic Rep. Bill Pascrell said: “There’s an aura of hate and elected politicians feed it, certain people on Fox News feed it.”
● Democratic Rep. Raul Grijalva (D-AZ) specifically blamed the Tea Party for turning our political discourse “toxic” and making it so that “if you’re an opponent, you’re a deadly enemy.” He then accused them of “threatening our form of government.” And he said that “Ms. Palin needs to look at her own behavior, and if she wants to help the public discourse, the best thing she could do is to keep quiet.”
● Keith Olbermann compared the shooter to Glenn Beck and called on him to apologize.
● Paul Krugman claimed that Rush, Beck and Palin were to blame.
● CBS’s Nancy Cordes, CNN’s Jessica Yellin, Today’s Kelly O’Donnell and ABC’s David Wright all blamed Palin’s “cross hairs campaign” for causing this.
● The New York Times wrote a piece that actually lets liberals speculate that the shooter was motivated by specific militia magazines, even after they confirmed that he was never a subscriber to any of these. And interestingly, when they describe the shooter in this piece, they "somehow" fail to mention any of the evidence presented above, even though they mention every other known fact about him.
3. The Real Purveyors of Hate Speech
So who really created this atmosphere of hate about which the left complains. With all their vast media resources, they've found one instance where Palin use a cross hairs image, which they have spun into possibly implying to the unstable that she was calling for an assassination (forget that leftist journalists routinely use warfare terminology to describe politics and many have used the cross hairs image themselves). Beside that, they have their opinions that Beck, Rush, etc. are spreading hate, but have been unable to produce any examples.
But what about leftist rhetoric? Bev informed us that the Huffers claimed the left had never said anything hateful. Roger Ebert likewise claimed that: "Were liberals angry about Bush? Yes. But liberals played by the rules." So is this correct or has the left conveniently developed collective amnesia? Let’s take a look.
Let’s start with some of things Ebert has said about Republicans:
So right-wingers are retarded, hateful, victims of child abuse? Nope, nothing hateful there. But Ebert's a piker when it comes to hate. For example, he never called for Bush's assassination, like so many other liberals did:● They have "a base it should be ashamed of."
● "The entire climate of paranoia and hate? Have these people always been there?"
● "Some of them may have been the victims of child abuse."
● "They are told to oppose, even hate, those who might be trying to help them."
But Bush hate is nowhere near the only hate the left has spewed of late. Tea Party hate is pathological on the left:● Here is a collection of protest signs that threaten to kill Bush. Some of these signs include:○ I’m here to kill Bush (Shoot Me)This link also shows dozens of other items like images of Bush being decapitated, a guillotine brought to a protest with Bush’s head in the basket, Bush being hung, Bush being burned in effigy, and an image of Bush being assassinated. Here are thousands of images of Bush as Hitler or Satan, and examples of t-shirts calling for Bush’s death, and wanted dead or alive posters.
○ Kill Bush Bomb His F___IN House
○ Save Mother Earth Kill Bush
○ Hang Bush For War Crimes
○ Bush Is The Disease Death Is The Cure
○ Bush the only Dope Worth Shooting
● Comedian(?) Craig Kilborn showed a picture of Bush and ran a caption that read “snipers wanted.”
● John Kerry joked about killing Bush on Bill Maher's show. When asked if going to New Hampshire for his campaign "would kill two birds with one stone," Kerry responded: "I could have gone to 1600 Pennsylvania and killed the real bird with one stone."
● And of course, in the middle of these nasty protests and Bushitler signs, Nancy Pelosi encouraged all of this when she called Bush “stupid” and said that “Dissent is the highest form of Patriotism.” Of course, when the protests went against her, then she suddenly demanded the government step in and investigate anyone involved with the protests.
Similarly, Democrat Rep. Robert Brady has now told CNN he will introduce legislation to make it a crime to use language or symbols that could be seen as threatening or violent against federal officials. Funny how that wasn't an issue when it was Republicans being protested and attacked. . . like when bullets were fired at Eric Cantor's office or Bobby Jindal's campaign manager was attacked and her boyfriend's leg broken by protestors, or 7 out of 10 instances of violence at healthcare town halls were perpetrated by leftists.
And when it comes to radio personalities and political writers, the left really gets hateful. Ask yourself if you could ever imagine saying any of the following yourself or if you would accept your friends saying any of the following:● In April, Joe Klein claimed that Glenn Beck and Sarah Palin were guilty of sedition for opposing ObamaCare.
● Democratic House Whip James Clyburn accused the GOP of “aiding and abetting. . . terrorism.” Clyburn also described the Tea Party thusly: "It reminds me of that period in our history right after Reconstruction, when South Carolina had a black governor and the political gains were lost because of vigilantism, the rise of the Ku Klux Klan."
● Rep. Paul Kanjorski (D-PA) said this in October of Florida Republican Governor Rick Scott (a Tea Party candidate): "Instead of running for governor of Florida, they ought to have him and shoot him. Put him against the wall and shoot him."
● Washington Post columnist Courtland Milloy said this of the Tea Party:I know how the "tea party" people feel, the anger, venom and bile that many of them showed during the recent House vote on health-care reform. I know because I want to spit on them, take one of their "Obama Plan White Slavery" signs and knock every racist and homophobic tooth out of their Cro-Magnon heads.● In November 2009, Dylan Rattigan of MSNBC was so upset that voters (i.e. Tea Party) were frustrating his leftist friends that he said this: "Are things in our country so bad that it might actually be time for a revolution? The answer obviously is yes, the only question is how to do it."
His guest then said that non-violent means were not effective for the left: “The american left has been very peaceful since the early ’60s and where has it gotten us?” And here is a quote from the guest’s book, “The Anti-American Manifesto”:“A war is coming. At stake: our lives, the planet, freedom, living. The government, the corporations, and the extreme right are prepared to coalesce into an Axis of Evil. Are you going to fight back? Will you do whatever it takes, including taking up arms?● The Nation also calls for violence: “where are the angry crowds, the demonstrations, sit-ins and unruly mobs?
The millions of partisans who follow Fox News, Rush Limbaugh, and right-wing televangelists happen to be the best-armed people around, and they despise just about everyone who doesn’t think and pray like them. . . . They will act to stop teenage sluts from getting abortions, teach niggers a lesson, and slaughter those spics, dots, and everyone else who doesn’t fit into their vision of what and who is right.”
So when the left complains about hate speech, let’s be clear, they are talking about themselves. That’s why they are so familiar with it. They use it, they mean it. These are the ideological blood-brothers of Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Che, and so many more -- hate and murder are deeply ensconced within their ideology.● Canadian columnist Antonia Zerbisias of the Toronto Star said this of Michelle Malkin: “Forget the Marxists. I wish the marksmen would take MichelleMalkin.” This same liberal often complains of other’s hate speech.
● How about some of the letters Michelle Malkin gets, like this:○ You’re a sick BITCH. Are you aware that you almost causes the death of an elementary school teacher the other day with your bullshit. You are a disgrace to Black people. I’m sorry .That’s right . You’re not black. Is your husband a white man that works for the Insurance Cartel?● How about some of the letters Rush gets from liberals:
○ from Greg Diaz: times up you ugly motherfucker make sure sure your husband signs that policy bitch○ Rush Limbaugh is Cunt of the Day for not dying. So many people die each day, why does hateful cunt Limbaugh get to live?● How about some liberal hate for Palin on Twitter:
○ RUSH LIMBAUGH WHY WONT YOU DIE?
○ rush deserves to die AND I HOPE HE BURNS IN HELL!!○ Death 2 Palin family them retarded hillbillies take teabaggers w/ you hateful bitch
○ We cant expect gov to intervene we must shoot Gen. Palin on site be 4 her troops strike again!
○ one word racism choose sides plain and simply that bitch Palin launch an attack, she need 2 b shot on site!
○ @Palin360 you need 2 b assassinated soon we ll settle 4 one of the family if not u!
○ maybe it takes a murder or 2 2 get the point across take aim at radical TP members
○ Palin will b met with gunfire her or her family
○ @SarahStormRpt u need 2 be shot on site startin that racist Tp shit, all you all do is promo violence dont cry when some kill u basterds
○ her map w crosshair need to b put on her family she that bitch can die or a TP supporter
○ I cant wait till someone serious hurt that bitch Palin or one of her children soon she out of control!
○ Palin came 2 lower 48 2 start a civil divide this could b the moment of truth 4 americans 2 put her down
○ i encourage ppl 2 meet the TP wit the same acts of violence Palin instructs them 2 do we need 2 harass them 2 their racist graves
○ Damn violent teabaggers!
(FYI: Patti has a link today that the left is using this shooting in their fund raisers already: LINK. I guess we shouldn't be surprised: "Never waste a crisis." -- Rahm Emanuel)
I haven't read the piece yet, but I have to gripe first -- (sorry)
ReplyDeleteI somehow ended up on the Americans for Democratic Action's emailing list. I decided to stick around and see what nonsense they sent my way - until today! They decided to headline their comments on the shootings with the Sheriff Dodo perspective - and mentioned Palin & Limbaugh by name - while decrying vitriol! I can't stand it! And I do NOT understand it! So, I unsubscribed myself.
Thank you for this forum as I attempt to maintain sanity in the face of idiocy!
now, on with the day...
Andrew - I like what you did here. My only preference is we stay away from things like "the shooter is a leftist." My point is, there are lots of crazies on the left. We know that. There are a few on the right as well. I've seen some of the posts that score 25 thumbs up over at Breitbart. This guy is crazy. I don't care what his motivations are. I know you were making the point "if anything evidence puts him on the left." I think we take a higher road by just pointing out there is no evidence he is a tea partyer.
ReplyDeleteI am more offended by the former Pennsylvania Rep. and guys like Bob Schiefer or even Krugman who went with the blame game. I expect it out of olbermann, but the others pretend to be legit.
Obama said if the enemy brings a knife to a fight we bring a gun. That is the great uniter. They want another Oklahoma City to get the people back on his side and get the tea party on the defensive.
You're welcome, you can always come and speak your mind here and find sane, rational, decent people who will respond. I am very proud of our audience!
ReplyDeleteAs for the ADA, it doesn't surprise me. I'm told that Democrats are starting to exploit this for fund raising purposes. That's because they don't value human life, they never have. They claim that they do, but the reality is that they see human being as mere tools to exploit and they see tragedies as a way to push their agenda. In fact, I can very honestly tell you that I sense a great deal of joy on the left over this. Some of them seem positively giddy that they are giving the right "bad press" -- whether the basis of their claim is true or not.
It is shameful and despicable, and should never forget this whenever we have dealings with them in the future.
The left is beneath contempt. I'm not listening to anything they have to say at this point, because we've heard it all before. As they say in advertising: "Same crap, different package."
ReplyDeleteJed, As you can tell from my post the other day, I agree with you about the politics of the shooter. it should be irrelevant. He's clearly crazy and to hold his views against an entire group is wrong, and is a form of thinking to which I do not subscribe.
ReplyDeleteI only point out that he's a leftist because the evidence I mention here was available to (and known by) the left when they went ahead and tried to call him a right winger, a Tea Partier, and when they claimed that he was inspired by Palin and Beck, et. al. Thus, I am pointing this out, not to tar the left with what he has done, but to expose the left for lying about his views so that they could exploit this tragedy and use it against their enemies.
This dovetails entirely with their hypocrisy about hate speech.
That's why I mentioned that.
Lawhawk, I've honestly reached a point where I no longer have any interest in listening to anything the left has to say. What do they offer now except spite? And incidents like this just prove that over and over again.
ReplyDeleteAndrew, I found a Washington Post article yesterday where the author, Jennifer Rubin, described the similarities between the media's reaction in this case and in the cases of the Oklahoma City bombings and the Holocaust Museum shooting, saying, "You can almost hear the disappointment from the left that he was a pothead rather than a Tea Partyer." One person in the comments section below the article simply refused to deal with reality, saying that Loughner "is clearly a right wing ideologue. So many of his ideas about ‘government ruling through currency,’ ‘conscious dreaming,’ ‘gold based currency’ are taken directly out of fringe right wing thought...Republicans have become baseless creatures who talk about responsibility, ethics, and morality. Yet when confronted with the results of their actions they choose to act like children and blame their political enemies." I don't know what's worse, the guy's so-called proof or his circular logic. Probably the circular logic.
ReplyDeleteIn addition to those brilliant remarks, I'm pretty sure I saw someone on HotAir.com last night, saying that the news that Loughner had written to Giffords as early as 2007 "doesn't pass the smell test," because Sarah Palin wasn't famous at that time and couldn't have influenced him to commit these crimes, which of course she did! There's faulty logic and then there's choosing to get a divorce from reality altogether.
T-Rav, The left believes in "any means necessary." (see Black Panthers). Thus, logic and consistency are irrelevant to the left. They are mere tools to be used when they help and something to be overlooked when it works against them. They traffic in the worst kinds of emotions, hypocrisy means nothing to them, and ad hominem attacks are their specialty. Indeed, their entire philosophy of redistribution only works when you can dehumanize the opponent.
ReplyDeleteThat's why leftist never worry about whether what they say makes sense, it need only fit the moment. Palin is the Satan of the moment, thus Palin is to blame. It does not matter if it makes sense or not. It is enough that they can draw a somewhat plausible link from some of the facts. Once they have that, they have permission to ignore all other evidence that may contradict their beliefs because their goals are more important than worrying about the truth.
That is how they behave and how they have always behaved. That is what happens when your political philosophy is based entirely on hate, spite and envy.
thanks for the link. dadgum this is comprehensive. well, done. i will return the favor and will link this as well.
ReplyDeletetoday i was told to "shut-it" (lol!) so i guess i messed that up for them with my entry.
carry on, brother. this fight just got uglier...
Speaking of Rush, your article reminded me of that despicable episode (at the White House no less) where Wanda Sykes said of Rush, "I hope his kidneys fail." That was just one of her lines in a barrage of vitriol she hurled at Rush and the right. And Obama was yucking it up the whole time.
ReplyDeleteAlso don't forget about how the MSM willingly circulated false racist comments to derail Rush's NFL deal. Funny that no one could produce any audio as evidence. "But knowing Rush, surely he thinks those things."
And wow, that link you provided to all those anti-Bush signs was just shocking. I'd seen some of those before, but not all of them. Could you imagine anyone on the right doing that and not being called out for it? Amazing amazing amazing!
Patti, Thanks! You're welcome on the link!
ReplyDeleteYou were told to shut it? Just shut it? No threats? Must have been a "moderate" leftist.
And you're right about this fight getting uglier.
Pitts, Good call (and thanks for the link to the Democrat from PA).
ReplyDeleteI think an entire compendium of leftist hate speech would be impossible to collect, but it would be nice if someone did collect it. In fact, it would make a heck of a database and it might even calm them down a bit.
In terms of Rush, you're absolutely right. They couldn't find anything, so they went with "I think he's the kind to say that" -- which is of course the next step for the thought police. It will never be enough just to stop the speech itself, they will need to stop those who they think might use the speech. Because their goal is to stop their enemies, nothing less.
The Bush signs are amazing. What's even more amazing is that they can pretend with a straight face that these things don't exist, that they never said these things. It was like an Economist article that almost made me fall off my chair the other day when I read that "before the Tea Party came to Washington, politics stopped at the border." WTF?!!! What planet have they be on? Do they not recall Pelosi, Jesse Jackass and friends giving aid and comfort to Americas enemies and cheering for our defeat in Iraq?
Wow. Just wow. Could you imagine if a Republican actually said any of these things? There would be days of "Breaking News Specials" as every single Democrat in the country went before cameras to express their outrage and call for the murder of the Republican!
ReplyDeleteEd, Even hinting at this would be enough to set the entire left up in arms. There would be protests in the streets, demands for resignation, leftists would be claiming this sent them into therapy, and their would be death threats galore. That's how the left is and that's the difference between right and left (one of them at least).
ReplyDeleteAndrew - I totally understand. I had just looked at Politico where they were talking about both sides trying to frame the killer one way or the other. Now, I'm prejudice, I understand, but my take was that the right was essentially more in a mode of defending against leftist attacks. Still, it made me think "I'm going to go overboard" to not play this game other than to point out things like the Dememocrat Leadership Committee bullseye maps in 2004 and Obama's own words. To me, things like comments from John Kerry or Schiefer count more than say, Keith Olbermann or Jane Fonda, or Elizabeth Banks when displaying their attack dog mentality.
ReplyDeleteA comprehensive collection of liberal hate speech would be really useful. I wonder if anyone is listening who could put that together. I would also include all the sexism used against Palin and other Republican Women, the racism used against black Republicans, and the anti-religious hatred used against Christians. That's really a good idea.
ReplyDeleteJed, I understand and I agree. I don't see anyone on the right (certainly not anyone famous or anyone I know who runs a blog) who is out there saying, "this guy was a leftist and they are to blame."
ReplyDeleteAll I've seen is rightists saying, "this is a tragedy, let's not go into the politics," followed up by them defending themselves against the left's attempts to politicize this.
In terms of the comments, I tried generally to break them into three groups -- those by Democratic politicians, those by supposedly responsible journalists, and then liberal bloggers/posters. Because I too think that it matters more if the source is an elected official or a journalist than if it's some anonymous poster or letter writer.
By the way, the idea of turning this into "both sides are trying to fight over who this guy was" (as the Politico has done) is an attempt to save their butts from their mistake of running out right away and trying to turn this political. That has not played well at all, so now they need to pretend that everyone was doing it.
This is all just so disgusting.
ReplyDeleteEd, I think that would be a great idea as well, though it's frankly beyond my tolerance. Plus, I can't collect video and things like that. But I agree entirely that would be an incredibly useful database!
ReplyDeleteCrispy, It is. But this is how the left works now and people need to realize that they are not dealing with people who just have different views on economics or social policy, they are dealing with people who are hateful monsters. We need to start calculating that in our thinking.
ReplyDeleteYour mention of Roger Ebert's description of Republicans as those who react with hate to those trying to help them brought to mind something else that happened Saturday (before the news from AZ broke). I was speaking to a friend of mine at a morning basketball game, and my friend--who is extremely liberal--started getting onto the ObamaCare thing, asking me if I knew I was opposing something that I benefitted from, since I'm covered by insurance for a few more years. I didn't have much time to respond, other than saying that I didn't really care what was in it for me, but the argument astounded me. Is that all we're supposed to worry about? What we can get from the government teat?
ReplyDeleteP.S., it may be worth mentioning that this fellow is very active in the local union. Shocking, huh?
T-Rav, That is how the left thinks. Governing is about what you can get. It's about using the government's power to give yourself goodies and to take away things from people you don't like. The idea that government is there for the common good is anathema to their thinking. That's why I keep saying that the left no longer has an ideology, because it doesn't believe in the dignity of individuals, nor does it believe in the best for society, it believes only in tribalism -- "what's in it for me and mine."
ReplyDeleteAnd that kind of thinking necessitates hatred because you take without taking from someone, and you can't take from someone unless you have come to hate them.
Great job, Andrew. This is going on facebook.
ReplyDeleteAndrew,
ReplyDeleteWhat I am surprised about is that there is no one in authority yet who is calling for re-education camps for us recalcitrant gun-loving, bible-toting neanderthals. I know it is coming.
Thanks JG! I read your post the other day as well and I could not have agreed more. I know your audience is not political, and I think you did an excellent job of laying out the issues fairly and correctly without politicizing it.
ReplyDeleteJoel, It's coming, except that no one will speak openly about "reducation" anymore because it sounds harsh.
ReplyDeleteWhat they will do instead, is start by targeting guns and free speech, while tarring the right. Then someone will introduce a bill to require K-12 schools to "introduce programs to eliminate hate". Then they will demand that colleges, corporations that do business with the government, and government agencies include such programs in their employee indoctrination programs. Then they'll try to hook in employer liability for employees who don't receive that kind of training but do something "hateful."
That's how they usually do it.
On a somewhat related note, it's becoming increasingly clear that Loughner (by the way, have you seen his mug shot today? That's ten kinds of creepy right there) was hardly playing with a single card, let alone a full deck. The Washington Post quoted a professor of his as saying, "I always felt, you know, somewhat paranoid...When I turned my back to write on the board, I would always turn back quickly--to see if he had a gun." He went on to say that Loughner had a habit of putting in completely senseless answers on tests, such as "Mayhemfest!" and "Eat+Sleep+Brush Teeth=Math." ABC News added to this with a story of its own, in which a classmate stated that in a poetry class, “A girl had written a poem about an abortion. It was very emotional and she was teary eyed and he said something about strapping a bomb to the fetus and making a baby bomber.” I bring this up because after all the incidents of violence on campuses in the recent past, how could a man this unhinged go unreported? And where was law enforcement in all this? Now I'm starting to wonder if Sheriff/Grandstander Emeritus Dupnik is partly trying to distract attention from something.
ReplyDeleteT_Rav, Two points.
ReplyDeleteFirst, he is crazy. His beef with the government is that they are using "grammar" to take away his "power to dream", which is what he uses to make the world real. That's not someone who is in touch with reality. From what I've read, I would also add paranoid, delusional, anti-social, and sexually dysfunctional.
Secondly, the real problem here is that no one did anything about him. As an attorney, I ran into this all the time, where people in authority would see that something was really wrong with someone and they did nothing about it. They should have had a mental sanity hearing on this kid and gotten him under the care of an institution of some sort. Moreover, they probably should have institutionalized him -- though (thanks to the left) you can't really do that anymore; instead they have let these people go if they promise to take their pills.
No one ever wants to deal with people like this, they just pass them on to the next person until they finally blow up.
Could this implicate the Sheriff? I don't know. I don't know if the shooter was ever brought to the Sheriff's attention. I know that the school should have acted differently than just kicking him out.
(P.S. Boris = Vigilante)
I see that they're slowing shift to "motives unknown." I guess they realized that the all out "the Republicans did it" attack wasn't playing well with the public.
ReplyDeleteEd, That's pretty standard. Start with the attack. When that blows up on the left, then they say both sides are doing it. When the finger starts pointing firmly at the left, they claim that no one really knows or we shouldn't be blaming anyone. And if it becomes inescapable that he's a leftist, then they'll describe him as a "loner" and a "crank."
ReplyDeleteThat's how they did it with the others like the Unabomber.
I put this under the wrong article. Vermont Socialist Bernie Sanders is using the shooting in his fund raising materials. Here's the quote:
ReplyDeleteWhat should be understood is that the violence, and threats of violence against Democrats in Arizona, was not limited to Gabrielle Giffords. Raul Grijalva, an old friend of mine and one of the most progressive members in the House, was forced to close his district office this summer when someone shot a bullet through his office window. Another Democratic elected official in Arizona, recently defeated Congressman Harry Mitchell, suspended town meetings in his district because of the threatening phone calls that he received (Mitchell was also in the cross-hairs on the Palin map). And Judge John Roll, who was shot to death at the Giffords event, had received numerous threatening calls and death threats in 2009. In light of all of this violence – both actual and threatened – is Arizona a state in which people who are not Republicans are able to participate freely and fully in the democratic process? Have right-wing reactionaries, through threats and acts of violence, intimidated people with different points of view from expressing their political positions?
Here's the other one. This one is from a group created by Tom Harkin. It's a fund raising letter:
ReplyDeleteWhy did he shoot Rep Giffords?
We don't know yet.
But we do know that she seems to be surviving this outrageous attempted murder. Rep. Gabrielle Giffords, however, was only one victim of this shocking attack, she along with eighteen others were wounded while six others were killed. The details of what happened are just now becoming available, but we are united in our grief and disbelief over these unfolding events. Our thoughts and prayers are with the victims of this senseless act of violence.
We also know that Sarah Palin and Rep. Giffords' opponent used violent imagery last year urging her opponents to "target" her. Last spring, after she voted to expand health insurance coverage to working families and cut drug costs for senior citizens her office was violently attacked.
Members of 21st Century Democrats helped elect Rep. Giffords in 2006 and re-elect her 2010 because she wasn't afraid to fight for working people -- or listen to them at the neighborhood supermarket. She voted for health care; Wall Street reform, job creation, and much more.
She stood with us -- and we need to stand with her in her toughest hours.
Please join us in sharing your thoughts and prayers to the Congresswoman and her family by visiting our website where we have set up a page for you to do so.
Sincerely,
Ed, I'm going to provide the links to these articles as well as the Sanders response.
ReplyDeleteHere is the link to the article about Sanders using this as a fundraiser: LINK.
Here's the link to the first group to use this as a fund raiser. They are the 21st Century Democrats. Here's the link: LINK
Here's the link to Sanders' attempt to justify his using this in a fundraiser: LINK. And here is the actual Sanders' response:
This was an e-mail letter that the senator's campaign sends out, and will continue to send out, to supporters in Vermont and around the country on a regular basis. This quite long newsletter gives the senator's views on the major issues facing our country. Most of the space in this newsletter dealt with the senator's views on the economic implications of what will be happening in the new Congress. Given the enormity of the tragedy in Arizona, however, it would have been absurd not to comment on what happened there.
The main point that the senator made about Arizona is that given the fact that Rep. Giffords' office was attacked last year after her vote for health care reform, that a protester had previously brought a gun to an event she held, that Arizona Rep. Raul Grijalva had to close his district office when someone shot a bullet through his window, that former Rep. Harry Mitchell had to suspend a town meeting in his district because of threatening phone calls and that Judge John Roll had received numerous threatening calls and death threats, one should not have been completely surprised by the tragedy of last Saturday. There is clearly a pervasive climate of fear and violence in Arizona and the senator very much hopes that the state's leading public officials will do what they can to create more civility so that people there can express their political views without fear.
As he always does, the senator devoted one sentence in a four-page newsletter to thanking his supporters and another sentence indicating that their support in the future would be appreciated.
Thank you! It's about time somebody pointed all this out. I saw this on Facebook and I will be passing it on myself.
ReplyDeleteThanks Anon, feel free to pass this around to anyone you like. :-)
ReplyDeleteI saw this link in our local paper and let me tell you, they are still filling up the comments with hate at Palin! They fear her!!! Palin 2012!!!
ReplyDeleteAnon, They're never going to stop.
ReplyDeleteThat's the best you can do? Roger Ebert?
ReplyDeleteI can roll out a dozen far worse from the right. There is this Ann Coulter gem, "My only regret with Timothy McVeigh is he did not go to the New York Times building." and a Glenn Beck beauty pondering the murder of Michael Moore, “I think he could be looking me in the eye, you know, and I could just be choking the life out [of him]…” or Rush saying to a black caller, "Take that bone out of your nose and call me back."
As far as your sign? Do a google image search for "anti bush" and "anti obama" you'll find plenty of racism, Obama depicted as a drug user, as gay, a muslim, in joker makeup, as a half breed, sentiments that he should be waterboarded, go back to Kenya and that his term should end in 2012 if not sooner (accompanied by an image of him covered in blood). That he wants to kill “Whitey” and the famous monkey image.
Yes there is some kill Bush sentiment, but Bush is mostly being accused of murder because of the war, and of being an idiot and an asshole. I’ve seen far more signs calling for Obama’s lynching.
As far as Loughner is concerned, yes there are some leftist Ideas surrounding him, but you conveniently leave out the fact that Aryan Nation reads "Mein Kampf", that his not recognizing the "second" constitution (ratified after the civil war where amendments freed the slaves), his mistrust of money and the Fed, and his belief that the government uses mind control are all ideas from the far-right.
And the real biggie? IF this was political why did he target a democrat?
Everyone gets hate mail, but that is not public and there are all manner of idiots on Twitter. And I can think of one instance in a congressional campaign a crosshair was used and targets as well (which can be taken two ways), but Sarah Palin uses more rifle reference that anyone I know “Lock and reload” and “Fire another salvo…”
And that’s danger there.
"These are the ideological blood-brothers of Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Che, and so many more -- hate and murder are deeply ensconced within their ideology."
ReplyDeleteAND what do you call that?
Wow, another leftist troll. Do you know Bruno? You two should hold a bakesale for hate or something! :-)
ReplyDeleteLet me respond with a couple points to your babble.
First, you are taking nutjobs and trying to say they represent the American right. I am pointing out supposedly respectable members of the left -- Congressman and journalists. There's a huge difference. The difference is that the people I'm talking about drive little minds like yours. The people you're talking about sit in wooden shacks in the woods playing with themselves and don't influence anyone.
Secondly, I hate to break this to you, but Hitler was a leftist, not a rightist. I know that your kind likes to disclaim all leftists who end up on the wrong side of history, but he was clearly one of you.
Third, what calls itself the far right these days, is the far left, they just don't get it. All those little black-shirted "anarchists" are advocating socialism.
Fourth, his friends have said he was a leftist. They are themselves leftists. They said this to a leftist magazine (Mother Jones). Unless you believe that they are all lying to discredit themselves, then he's a leftist. Deal with it.
Fifth, your statement that somehow hatred against Bush was justified tells us all we need to know about you. You are one of these leftist pieces of shit that has caused the very "atmosphere of hate" that you now complain about. You are to blame. The guilt is yours. Now go to your room and think about what you did.
Oh, and thanks for coming.
"These are the ideological blood-brothers of Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Che, and so many more -- hate and murder are deeply ensconced within their ideology."
ReplyDeleteAND what do you call that?
What do I call that? A socialist. Want me to spell it for you?
"As far as Loughner is concerned, yes there are some leftist Ideas surrounding him, but you conveniently leave out the fact that Aryan Nation reads "Mein Kampf", that his not recognizing the "second" constitution (ratified after the civil war where amendments freed the slaves), his mistrust of money and the Fed, and his belief that the government uses mind control are all ideas from the far-right."
ReplyDeleteMary, this is an excellent example of begging the question. You assume that 1) These are the ideas of the political Right, 2) Loughner believes them, therefore 3) Right-wing ideas are responsible for the Tucson shooting. Your conclusion is unproven, however, because your first assumption is false. It's been demonstrated repeatedly that Loughner's political ideas, to the extent that he had any, were a mishmash borrowed from the extreme Left, the extreme Right, and ones he got up out of his own head. He also listed "The Communist Manifesto" as a favorite book of his, had as a favorite YouTube video someone burning an American flag, and was heard to talk about the flag and the Constitution as restrictions on his personal freedom. Does that sound like a right-winger to you?
Also, you ask "why did he target a Democrat?" I'll turn your own question around on you. As you may be aware, Giffords is a former Republican who has repeatedly taken up moderate positions on issues such as gun rights and illegal immigration--very much a "Blue Dog." If Loughner was out to kill someone on the Left, why wouldn't he go after someone undisputably on that end of the spectrum, like Barbara Boxer or Nancy Pelosi--or, if he's on a tight travel budget, just take a one-tank trip within the state and knock off AZ Rep. Raul Grijalva, a proud progressive and darling of La Raza?
I expect this to have absolutely no impact on you, but hopefully someone with the capacity for intelligent debate will read it and take these points into account.
Yeah, what T_Rav said! LOL!
ReplyDeleteSeriously, Mary, listen to T_Rav, he's taken the time to try to teach you something and he's done a very good job of it. If you drop your prejudices and OPEN YOUR MIND, you may realize a lot by reading what he's written.
Loughner wrote about these things, whether he believes them or not I don’t know. I know a fair amount about paranoid schizophrenics and they tend to fixate, but they often act inappropriately to ideas and see them in different ways from those of us who act appropriately. Their boundaries are different.
ReplyDeleteWhy do those on the right fly confederate flags and carry “Don’t Tread On Me” signs if they don’t long for the old days? Pre-Civil War? Loughner speaks of government control through grammar, an idea put forth by David Wynn Miller, who was certainly far right as is the idea of basing our currency only on gold.
I never said I thought that the killings were the result of right wing ideas.
What is being suggested here is that it was leftist hate speech that spurred him on. And furthermore the author goes on to equate the left with murder and hate.
And you are STILL suggesting that Loughner is a liberal, who went after Giffords because she was formerly a Republican?
I am sorry, but I find your theories moronic.
I believe I was civil in my commentary, yet Andrew has this to say of me "You are one of these leftist pieces of shit that has caused the very "atmosphere of hate" that you now complain about."
ReplyDeleteYou are making a lot of assumptions.
I don't hate anyone. I just find you misguided and under informed.
Mary,
ReplyDeleteFirst, I have not said that he acted in response to leftist hate rhetoric. If you look, you will see that I repeatedly say that he is a nutjob who acted for his own reasons which had little to do with reality. It seems very clear right now that he shot her because he was crazy and he did not like her answer to a bizarro question he asked her in 2007.
What I have written here is a response to the left, which immediately jumped on this issue and exploited it to attack their boggeymen -- the same boogeymen you mention in your post, people like Sarah Palin and Glenn Beck. I am showing in this post, (1) that the facts show that he was more a leftist than a rightist, (2) the leftist media ran with the idea that he was a rightist even after these facts and came out, and (3) despite repeated assertion by the left that they have never engaged in "hate speech", it's actually very common among the left. I have provided a sampling of instances, such as where various leftists have called for the murder of people on the right.
Your argument that he is schizophrenic and therefore we should not consider what he reads or who he supports... but we should conclude he is on the right because of a crazy theory about grammar, is entirely illogical. Either we must judge him by his choices or we don't, we can't say "don't judge him for the choices that show him to be a leftist but judge him for the choices that I think show him to be a rightist." That's not an argument, that's wishful thinking.
Moreover, there is more evidence yet. For example, his friends have said that he was a John Kerry supporter and that he was a liberal. And let me add that his view of eliminating the dollar is closer to left than right because he's not advocating creating a gold standard, he's advocating some fantasy currency that everyone makes themselves. That's consistent with leftist thinking, which disdains currency as a tool of oppression.
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ReplyDeleteDo I think leftist hate rhetoric played a roll in his decision? I doubt it. I think this guy was going to do what he was going to do no matter what people said. If no one ever said anything nasty, he would have fixated on Barney or Scooby Doo and he would have decided that they wanted him to kill her.
Do I think there is hate speech on the right? Not nearly as much as on the left, and you have to look much further out on the fringe to find it. And I would also argue that many of those people are not on the right in any event, they are in a nebulous area where they mix left, right and conspiracy theory to form an ignorant world view that is neither left nor right.
In terms of equating the left with murder, I am sorry, but that is accurate. The left loves to pretend that the things done in its name over and over again were always the result of some corruption of their beliefs, but that's not true. Each of those murderers named was a leftist, and was inspired by the same beliefs and impulses shared by the current left. The problem is that the left's ideology is premised on the idea that an anointed elite know what is best for humanity and they intend to force that on people, no matter what. And it doesn't take long to convert that into getting rid of those who stand in the way, which is where socialism always goes wrong. A philosophy that does not respect the rights and dignity of individuals and which subsumes them to the will of the government will always drift into areas where it sees its opponents as an obstacle to be eliminated.
Mary, It is true that you were civil and I apologize.
ReplyDeleteOh, I was SO hoping you would bring up David Wynn Miller (I'm sorry, HUMAN-DESIGNATE DAVID-WYNN: MILLER) I'll ignore the fact that you seem to think "Don't Tread On Me" flags are symbols of racism, the fact that Andrew never said conservatives have never used hateful or extreme language themselves, or the fact that you ignore me pointing out that your theories are full of holes, and focus on this one tidbit.
ReplyDeleteTwo days ago, I wouldn't have had a clue what you were going on about, and still wouldn't except that another blogger heard these claims and had to dig up info on Miller to find out just who the heck he is. Apparently he describes himself as a "Plenipotentiary-Judge", an ambassador, banker, postmaster, King of Hawaii, and a genius. This obsession with grammar you speak of refers to his invention of the "Mathematical Interface for Language or Quantum-Math-Communications and Language or Correct-Language," which he claims is "for the stopping-claims of the Theft, Cheating, Fraud, Slavery and War." From Wikipedia, "Miller's language uses sentences that begin with prepositional phrases, using the word For, are at least thirteen words long, and have many more nouns than verbs. According to Miller, only nouns have legal authority. The language has an abundance of punctuation...According to Miller's teaching, the addition of hyphens and colons to one's name turns one from an ordinary, taxable human into a non-taxable “prepositional phrase.” They are distinguished from the names listed at birth in all capital letters (as on a birth certificate), which he claims turns one into a taxable Person (Corporation)." Wow, you're right! This is all stuff out of the conservative playbook! My God, how could I have been so blind??!! I had no idea the thoughts of us right-wingers turned around the sayings of a man we'd never even heard of.
Seriously, go ahead and explain how HUMAN-DESIGNATE DAVID-WYNN: MILLER is a right-winger and therefore links us to Loughner. I haven't seen anyone hang themselves with their own arguments lately, so this should be fun.
Oh, and since I guess I should be emulating the example of my intellectual founder, please refer to me for the rest of the night as RAV: T_.
ReplyDeleteRav: _T, I've never heard of this David Wynn Miller, but holy cow! It sounds like his royal highness, the King of Hawaii needs a rubber room. . . stat.
ReplyDeleteIt also sounds like Loughner would have been better off if he had listened to Scooby Doo instead. At least he would have been more coherent.
Andrew, Ace of Spades HQ had a pretty good story on him and his craziness, plus David Corn's attempt to link us to him, a few days ago. He (Ace) laid out a pretty good legalistic argument for this blame game that you would appreciate--to wit, a tort or damages case can only be won by establishing four parts. First, you must show that X had an obligation; second, that X was negligent in this obligation; third, that this negligence led to an actual harm; and fourth, that there was an actual harm. Basically, the Left is trying to prove that conservatives, by forsaking civil dialogue for extremist rhetoric, caused the Tucson shooting, which would be the "actual harm"; but as Ace points out, they're missing number 3, which is that there was a direct causal relationship between the two. Obviously, they can't do it, and that's why Mary, the venerable Mr. Corn, and others are using this Miller nut to fill the gap. The full piece is at http://ace.mu.nu/ if you're interested; you may have to scroll down quite a bit, but it should still be up.
ReplyDeleteThanks Rav:_T, I'll check that out.
ReplyDeleteMy biggest issue with this whole affair (as you saw in my piece the other day) is the assignment of group blame. I think that's entirely inappropriate in America, where we should be judging people as individuals, not treating them as mere parts of a group and then holding whole groups responsible for the actions of one or two members of the group.
If we are really to begin group punishments, then we might as cut to the chase and start fighting it out because there's no such thing as justice and guilt/innocence are entirely meaningless.
You are lumping me in with Socialist Dictators and I don’t believe I expressed the need for a dictator in this country. I don’t live in China or South America or Cambodia. I live in America. My family left Lithuania because of Hitler and the rest hailed from Scotland, six generations of them. I grew up in a conservative household.
ReplyDeleteThere are ideals from the right that I believe are correct, BUT as a progressive I believe in social programs like Police, Garbage Collection, Clean Water, Health Care and Social Security. I live in the city of Detroit and I talk to people every day who are looking for work. People who are learning new skills in training programs partially funded by Federal funds and I’ve seen innovation and creativity in companies that are creating new jobs because tax credits (created under Clinton) help them open businesses here. This city is poor, there is a man here who sits out on the sidewalk all day selling bottled water in the summer. He doesn’t make much, but he’s contributing to the family income.
I am happy to pay a little more in taxes if it helps these folks out.
None of this makes me a murderer!
The Right wants less government like our friend David Miller and less social services. Fine, but perhaps you better start boiling your own water from the nearest stream and burning your garbage lest you be lumped in with murderers, too.
I work in the movie industry for those sinful Hollywood types that the Right seem to so disdain. Before that I had a special effects studio that catered to the auto industry and I saw that in the greed and overspending on advertising instead of innovation (the first four years of Bush) they were doomed to fail and I shut it down rather than work for fools. I once put the homeless in that neighborhood to work, after a while it became a wasteland. My studio is now a nursing school. The last four years of Bush, who as a President’s son is surely part of the ELITE you claim the Left worships, I started a small PR agency for start-ups and small businesses only to watch them struggle in the end.
David Miller works for the Sovereign Citizens Movement, who are anti- government with white extremist elements. You sweet white boys on the Right have never been associated with murders have you? And NOW I suppose you will tell me the Klu Klux Klan is a leftist group, too.
Miller may be a nut, but he is your nut.
Who put the bullet through Rep. Raul Grijalva window? Who smashed in Giffords office door? Who is making death threats to Mitchell? Who is spitting on Barney Frank? And calling Congressmen niggers? Who said, “I’ll tell you who should be tortured and killed at Guantanamo: every filthy Democrat in the U.S. Congress. “? Your hero, Sean Hannity.
You see we already have an index of your hate speech. Why is it you don’t have one on the left?
I’d like to hang out longer with you civil folks that accuse me of having an ideology of murder and hate and call me a piece of shit. I came here specifically to find examples of leftist hate speech to provide balance to an article I was writing.
Instead I have found the opposite. Adieu.
You are lumping me in with Socialist Dictators and I don’t believe I expressed the need for a dictator in this country. I don’t live in China or South America or Cambodia. I live in America. My family left Lithuania because of Hitler and the rest hailed from Scotland, six generations of them. I grew up in a conservative household.
ReplyDeleteThere are ideals from the right that I believe are correct, BUT as a progressive I believe in social programs like Police, Garbage Collection, Clean Water, Health Care and Social Security. I live in the city of Detroit and I talk to people every day who are looking for work. People who are learning new skills in training programs partially funded by Federal funds and I’ve seen innovation and creativity in companies that are creating new jobs because tax credits (created under Clinton) help them open businesses here. This city is poor, there is a man here who sits out on the sidewalk all day selling bottled water in the summer. He doesn’t make much, but he’s contributing to the family income.
I am happy to pay a little more in taxes if it helps these folks out.
None of this makes me a murderer!
The Right wants less government like our friend David Miller and less social services. Fine, but perhaps you better start boiling your own water from the nearest stream and burning your garbage lest you be lumped in with murderers, too.
I work in the movie industry for those sinful Hollywood types that the Right seem to so disdain. Before that I had a special effects studio that catered to the auto industry and I saw that in the greed and overspending on advertising instead of innovation (the first four years of Bush) they were doomed to fail and I shut it down rather than work for fools. I once put the homeless in that neighborhood to work, after a while it became a wasteland. My studio is now a nursing school. The last four years of Bush, who as a President’s son is surely part of the ELITE you claim the Left worships, I started a small PR agency for start-ups and small businesses only to watch them struggle in the end.
David Miller works for the Sovereign Citizens Movement, who are anti- government with white extremist elements. You sweet white boys on the Right have never been associated with murders have you? And NOW I suppose you will tell me the Klu Klux Klan is a leftist group, too.
Miller may be a nut, but he is your nut.
You are lumping me in with Socialist Dictators and I don’t believe I expressed the need for a dictator in this country. I don’t live in China or South America or Cambodia. I live in America. My family left Lithuania because of Hitler and the rest hailed from Scotland, six generations of them. I grew up in a conservative household.
ReplyDeleteThere are ideals from the right that I believe are correct, BUT as a progressive I believe in social programs like Police, Garbage Collection, Clean Water, Health Care and Social Security. I live in the city of Detroit and I talk to people every day who are looking for work. People who are learning new skills in training programs partially funded by Federal funds and I’ve seen innovation and creativity in companies that are creating new jobs because tax credits (created under Clinton) help them open businesses here. This city is poor, there is a man here who sits out on the sidewalk all day selling bottled water in the summer. He doesn’t make much, but he’s contributing to the family income.
I am happy to pay a little more in taxes if it helps these folks out.
None of this makes me a murderer!
The Right wants less government like our friend David Miller and less social services. Fine, but perhaps you better start boiling your own water from the nearest stream and burning your garbage lest you be lumped in with murderers, too.
ReplyDeleteI work in the movie industry for those sinful Hollywood types that the Right seem to so disdain. Before that I had a special effects studio that catered to the auto industry and I saw that in the greed and overspending on advertising instead of innovation (the first four years of Bush) they were doomed to fail and I shut it down rather than work for fools. I once put the homeless in that neighborhood to work, after a while it became a wasteland. My studio is now a nursing school. The last four years of Bush, who as a President’s son is surely part of the ELITE you claim the Left worships, I started a small PR agency for start-ups and small businesses only to watch them struggle in the end.
David Miller works for the Sovereign Citizens Movement, who are anti- government with white extremist elements. You sweet white boys on the Right have never been associated with murders have you? And NOW I suppose you will tell me the Klu Klux Klan is a leftist group, too.
Miller may be a nut, but he is your nut.
Who put the bullet through Rep. Raul Grijalva window? Who smashed in Giffords office door? Who is making death threats to Mitchell? Who is spitting on Barney Frank? And calling Congressmen niggers? Who said, “I’ll tell you who should be tortured and killed at Guantanamo: every filthy Democrat in the U.S. Congress. “? Your hero, Sean Hannity.
ReplyDeleteYou see we already have an index of your hate speech. Why is it you don’t have one on the left?
I’d like to hang out longer with you civil folks that accuse me of having an ideology of murder and hate and call me a piece of shit. I came here specifically to find examples of leftist hate speech to provide balance to an article I was writing.
Instead I have found the opposite. Adieu.
Mary, why are you switching back and forth between your name and "Anonymous" in the multiple copies of your posts? Are you off your meds? Also, if you're so interested in "civil debate," why leave--even after Andrew apologized for getting a little heated? Of course, I guess you'll never see this, since you chose to scurry off instead. Guess I'll just say all this to the empty room. Hello-ello-lo-lo-lo.....
ReplyDeleteMary, Your grasp on history and reality is tenuous at best. I don't even know where to begin with you? Basically, every single sentence you utter is wrong.
ReplyDeleteYou place the blame on Bush for things that have been going on for decades. You credit Clinton with things that have been going on for decades. You try to claim that your side support all the good things government does and you disavow all the bad. You also don't seem to get that conservatives are not anti-government nor are they opposed to some government services. Indeed, your entire view of conservatives comes right out of the lunatic guide if you think the right consists of racists -- the right shoved their racists out years ago, why haven't you all on the left?
Moreover, the fact that you would equate the use of the word "nigger" with murder shows that you are truly off the deep end. There is a huge difference between name calling and threats of violence, and if you can't see that then you truly are beyond hope -- not to mention that I doubt a single claim you make about seeing this racism.
Not to mention that the idea that you think the death threats against Bush were valid, tell us that you are indeed a hateful creature. And the fact that you seem to want to avoid discussing the death threats against Scott, Malkin, Run, Palin and the rest that I've identified in the article, yet you claim that I've presented no evidence of hate speech, tells again that you are a lying, hateful little creature.
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ReplyDeleteYour problem is that like all delusional leftists today, you take all that is bad and define that as "it must have been conservatives." And then you take all that was good and say, "that must have been liberals." When the reality is that the Democrats (the left) was the party of slave, the party of Jim Crowe, the party of unions that kept blacks out, the party that started every war until Desert Storm, the party that spreads race-hate today through identity politics and group blame, etc. etc. And your intellectual brethren, whether you like this or not, are the socialists the world over who have murdered hundreds of millions of people in the name of "progress." Just because you claim to have no intent to murder anyone does not absolve your ideology of that stain. You share their core belief that the individual must be dominated by the state. And if you deny that, then tell me what you would do to anyone who tells you to shove it and says they will not pay your taxes or conform to your speech regulation?
You are ignorant and delusional, and your ideology is clearly so fragile that you are unwilling to hear the truth. Instead, you put your head in the sand and you blame white racists and conservatives for the crimes of your own side.
Oh, and by they way, as an attorney, I have met several KKK members. I hate to break this to you, but they were all staunch Democrats who wanted to be rid of blacks so they could create a "white SOCIALIST paradise." That makes them your ideological kin. Deal with it.
Just jumped over here from the link in today's comment thread. Thanks for the shout-out. Yes, my audience is largely not political, but I'm working on 'em. ;)
ReplyDeleteJG, Excellent! Sadly, whether people like it or not, politics has been intruding on all aspects of our lives these days, so people are going to find themselves dealing with politics whether they want to or not.
ReplyDeleteYou're welcome about the shootout. Unfortunately, I'm not sure we made much progress. Actually, I didn't think we would. Anyone who could equate calling someone names with making murder threats, and who thinks that death threats against a President can be justified, isn't someone who is going to listen. Plus, she did the time honored head-in-the-sand strategy of ignoring everything we said and constantly coming back with "I see racism everywhere." It's hard to get through to people like that. People like that are simply trying to validate their prior beliefs.