Where American politics are concerned, few things come in for more criticism than our two-party system. Just look at all the third-party movements we've seen over the years. And it's understandable that a lot of conservatives, for example, would want to leave or replace the Republican Party. But is it a good idea? Not really.
For the past few years, there has been on-and-off talk among conservatives about bolting the Republican Party, forming a new Tea Party or Conservative Party, and running against the established two. People like Scott Rasmussen and Michael Barone have discussed this, as have a lot of bloggers and grassroots organizers. Much of the talk has run to replacing both the Democrats and the Republicans with explicit Liberal and Conservative Parties; which makes a lot of sense on the surface. Both parties would be very clear about what they stand for, it might take care of some of the overlap within the two parties, etc.; on our side, conservatives could theoretically have a lot more control over the GOP's successor. Seems logical enough, right?
Well, that's why we shouldn't enact stuff just because it "seems logical."
A basic fact of U.S. politics has to be kept in mind before criticizing how our political parties operate. In a system with strict separation between the executive and the legislature, and with party strength dependent on winning a majority or at least plurality of votes in a given territory, the number of parties naturally reduces itself to two. Not one, because there always has to be an opposition, and not three or more, because that would divide the pie too many ways.
Now, keep in mind I'm talking about mainstream political parties. Of course there are lots of parties today--the Green Party, the Libertarian Party, the Rent Is Too Darn High Party, etc. But there's a reason only the Dems and GOPers are actively contesting the Presidency and 99 percent of Congressional seats. It's not a law of politics, but it's the next closest thing. Only large, national parties can effectively compete, and collective self-interest dictates that there be as few of them as possible and that they each encompass a broad range of groups. This has been the way throughout American history. Sure, you can point to a few instances where national elections saw a three-way race, but those were isolated and unstable anomalies, which had completely disappeared by the time of the next big contest. What this means is, a Conservative Party, like a Liberal Party, could not coexist with the Republican Party for very long. One would have to absorb the other, and the longer this takes, the longer the non-leftist vote will be split and ineffective.
But let's say this happens, and we get a Conservative Party replacing the GOP and things quickly settle down. Would the ensuing situation be more desirable for us? Well, probably not. Consider who's traditionally supported such an idea.
Creating liberal and conservative parties is not actually a new idea; it goes back to the New Deal era and was proposed by a lot of academics, especially political scientists. In fact, many of the most famous representatives of the liberal intelligentsia, such as Harold Laski and Arthur Schlesinger, Jr., supported it, arguing the formation of an actual conservative party as a way to raise the moral content of political debate. BUT, they weren't exactly being genuine about this. These New Deal liberals believed in what you might call "Sherpa conservatism," in which the Right would be just as committed to long-term progress and change as the Left, only offering quiet critiques here and there: a kind of minor "course correction," if you will. Plus, they figured this would be a good way to expel the conservative wing of the Democratic Party and make it a fully leftist organization. Having a balance between liberals and conservatives in politics was never part of the plan.
But forget the academics. How bad could the consequences of such a change be, after all? Well, just know up front that we won't get rid of the McCain-Graham brand of RINOs. For whatever reasons, these people have chosen to camp within the GOP's tent; the complex of political and economic factors involved in sustaining a national political party suggests that a lot of these people would find their way into this hypothetical new party as well. So we'd be left with a party that, in practice, is not that much different from what we left.
Also, keep in mind that this hypothetical Conservative Party, by being so explicitly tied to conservatism, might well end up discrediting the movement. Think about all the scandals and disgraces the GOP suffered through in the past decade or so. If that repeats itself at some point--as seems likely, given the conditions under which it will probably operate--those debacles are happening in conservatism's name, as it were. There's a reason Left and Right hide within parties which aren't explicitly identified with them; if the goal is the maintenance of the political ideology, it's better not to be tied to a particular party.
Fighting within the framework of the existing parties can be very frustrating. Having worked for the GOP in the past, I know that all too well. But short-term costs have to be weighed against long-term benefits, and in this case, it would appear to working to change the Republican Party from the inside continues to be a better option than breaking off to form a third option or a replacement. But you may disagree. Opinions?
For the past few years, there has been on-and-off talk among conservatives about bolting the Republican Party, forming a new Tea Party or Conservative Party, and running against the established two. People like Scott Rasmussen and Michael Barone have discussed this, as have a lot of bloggers and grassroots organizers. Much of the talk has run to replacing both the Democrats and the Republicans with explicit Liberal and Conservative Parties; which makes a lot of sense on the surface. Both parties would be very clear about what they stand for, it might take care of some of the overlap within the two parties, etc.; on our side, conservatives could theoretically have a lot more control over the GOP's successor. Seems logical enough, right?
Well, that's why we shouldn't enact stuff just because it "seems logical."
A basic fact of U.S. politics has to be kept in mind before criticizing how our political parties operate. In a system with strict separation between the executive and the legislature, and with party strength dependent on winning a majority or at least plurality of votes in a given territory, the number of parties naturally reduces itself to two. Not one, because there always has to be an opposition, and not three or more, because that would divide the pie too many ways.
Now, keep in mind I'm talking about mainstream political parties. Of course there are lots of parties today--the Green Party, the Libertarian Party, the Rent Is Too Darn High Party, etc. But there's a reason only the Dems and GOPers are actively contesting the Presidency and 99 percent of Congressional seats. It's not a law of politics, but it's the next closest thing. Only large, national parties can effectively compete, and collective self-interest dictates that there be as few of them as possible and that they each encompass a broad range of groups. This has been the way throughout American history. Sure, you can point to a few instances where national elections saw a three-way race, but those were isolated and unstable anomalies, which had completely disappeared by the time of the next big contest. What this means is, a Conservative Party, like a Liberal Party, could not coexist with the Republican Party for very long. One would have to absorb the other, and the longer this takes, the longer the non-leftist vote will be split and ineffective.
But let's say this happens, and we get a Conservative Party replacing the GOP and things quickly settle down. Would the ensuing situation be more desirable for us? Well, probably not. Consider who's traditionally supported such an idea.
Creating liberal and conservative parties is not actually a new idea; it goes back to the New Deal era and was proposed by a lot of academics, especially political scientists. In fact, many of the most famous representatives of the liberal intelligentsia, such as Harold Laski and Arthur Schlesinger, Jr., supported it, arguing the formation of an actual conservative party as a way to raise the moral content of political debate. BUT, they weren't exactly being genuine about this. These New Deal liberals believed in what you might call "Sherpa conservatism," in which the Right would be just as committed to long-term progress and change as the Left, only offering quiet critiques here and there: a kind of minor "course correction," if you will. Plus, they figured this would be a good way to expel the conservative wing of the Democratic Party and make it a fully leftist organization. Having a balance between liberals and conservatives in politics was never part of the plan.
But forget the academics. How bad could the consequences of such a change be, after all? Well, just know up front that we won't get rid of the McCain-Graham brand of RINOs. For whatever reasons, these people have chosen to camp within the GOP's tent; the complex of political and economic factors involved in sustaining a national political party suggests that a lot of these people would find their way into this hypothetical new party as well. So we'd be left with a party that, in practice, is not that much different from what we left.
Also, keep in mind that this hypothetical Conservative Party, by being so explicitly tied to conservatism, might well end up discrediting the movement. Think about all the scandals and disgraces the GOP suffered through in the past decade or so. If that repeats itself at some point--as seems likely, given the conditions under which it will probably operate--those debacles are happening in conservatism's name, as it were. There's a reason Left and Right hide within parties which aren't explicitly identified with them; if the goal is the maintenance of the political ideology, it's better not to be tied to a particular party.
Fighting within the framework of the existing parties can be very frustrating. Having worked for the GOP in the past, I know that all too well. But short-term costs have to be weighed against long-term benefits, and in this case, it would appear to working to change the Republican Party from the inside continues to be a better option than breaking off to form a third option or a replacement. But you may disagree. Opinions?
Honestly, I don't agree with the premise. The Republican Party is run by the same people who keep claiming they need to break off and create a new party:
ReplyDelete- Unanimous votes on the platform all in favor of fringe positions.
- Near 100% opposition to everything Obama has proposed for 5 years.
- The identification of a total of 8 House members and 2 or 3 Senators who are unpure.
- Presidential and other candidates who compete to get to the far fringe on every issue and then savage each other for a lack of passion or only being recent converts.
That's not a party in the grip of moderates or RINOs. That's a party that has created a myth about secret enemies so it doesn't have to face the fact that what it wants isn't palatable to the American public.
Moreover, the Republican Party is tied 100% to conservatism. Conservatives may not want to believe that, but that is how everyone else in American sees them.
Putting that aside, your point is a valid one that only fools try to split off and form a new party in this country. The psychology of human nature is against it because:
ReplyDelete(1) In a two party system a vote for anyone but Party A is a vote for Party B, and as long as people fear Party B, they won't stop voting for Party A.
(2) America is not an ideological country and the only reason people would break off is ideology, which is a turnoff for the public.
(3) Most people stick with brand names because they look for a certain level of quality and the idea of handing the government over to people with no history in government is as scary as buying a car from a brand new company.
Andrew, my issue isn't really who's talking about splitting off and forming a new party. It's more about why this would be a bad idea, regardless of who's promoting it and despite the temptations that might crop up every now and then.
ReplyDeleteBut yeah, the rules of electoral politics practically dictate two major parties, and even beyond that, institutional inertia takes over after a while. America is really remarkable, when you think about it, in that the same two parties have dominated the landscape since 1860. No other Western nation, so far as I know, can claim that; even Britain has seen parties rise and fall in that time. Hopefully that says a lot about our innate stability.
T-Rav, I think you are right that breaking off is a bad idea and that our system is very, very stable.
ReplyDeleteBreaking off is essentially the best way to make yourself irrelevant because unless you speak through one of the two parties, the public and the government don't listen.
And the reason this has been true for so long is that both parties are not fixed in their beliefs. So they have always been able to shift their positions and absorb new movements as they appear. They're kind of like giant blobs who pick up anything they touch. And what this does is it allows them to neuter new movements by adopting parts of their agendas and stealing away the bulk of their followers.
And like I said above, the public really isn't ideological -- they are practical. They want results, not theory. So as long as the parties avoid becoming ideologically hidebound, they can keep doing this.
This is why I always shake my head at the people who say they are "finished" with one party or another and that the public is ready to go with them. Yeah, right. That's a total fantasy and it completely misunderstands how the public thinks.
Forget the extra party.
ReplyDelete1. Buy up more instruments of information dissemination so we get something like 50-50 coverage instead of 25-75 at this point.
2. Go after the academic indoctrination centers to get assured access to a conservative message for all students.
The progressives didn't need another party. They simply took over the Democratic party. There's the template, conservatives and libertarians just need to follow it.
K, You might be interested to know that I read that the EVIL Koch brothers have apparently turned their interests to newspapers and are looking at buying some major newspapers (Chicago Tribune, LA Times). So I think they are starting to see the need to fight the information war.
ReplyDeleteSee, this is where the lefties are better players of the game.
ReplyDeleteNow we're going to get wall to wall coverage of the evil Koch brothers attempting to take over American media.
The left, OTOH, would have used a false flag buyer to do this under the table - then slowly, strangely, those papers just seem to be running more articles with a libertarian slant - just can't understand it - I'll call the Ombudsman - she can't understand it either. Didn't know how an article advocating universal gun ownership could happen. We'll get right on it.
K, I know. The left is much savvier when it comes to these things for some reason. I don't get it. It's not like this stuff is so hard that it requires any sort of brilliance. Yet, it seems to be well beyond the understanding of most conservatives. I don't know why.
ReplyDeleteIn fact, this leads back to T-Rav's point in the article that forming a "conservative" party is not a smart idea because it will mix the ideology with the party. It's always better to call yourself "the moderate party" whatever your views are.
Unfortunately, that isn't something our side does. Indeed, this is one of real problems with the conservative message in the past couple decades is that conservatives are competing for the title of most extreme, and then they wonder why the public sees them as extremists. Any good politician knows that no matter how extreme your beliefs, you always say you are in the center. Not conservatives though. They claim to be pure and genuine.
I think buying up newspapers is harmless but pointless. People can pick their poison nowadays. If someone isn't listening to conservatives news, its because they don't want to.
ReplyDeleteBuying newspapers and turning them conservative will probably be the equivalent of buying hamburger joints and turning them vegetarian, they will lose their old audience and gain a new one.
Judging by what is gaining popularity and what is losing popularity, it makes the most commercial sense for a news source to unambiguously pick a side.
So I think they are starting to see the need to fight the information war.
ReplyDeleteYay! And only 40 years in!
Andrew, and that's a big reason why the third parties that have formed haven't lasted. There were a few times when it looked like one of them (the Progressives, the Greens, the Independents) might be in a position to replace one of the big two, but they didn't have the resources or the broad base to pull it off.
ReplyDeleteI do think you hear a lot of talk from the public about leaving the Democrats and Republicans behind for a new party. But talk is all it is.
K, that kind of "long march" through the institutions is exactly what we need. But it'll be a lot easier for the media than for the universities. As Andrew mentioned, the Koch brothers are starting to shake things up by buying into various publications and all; academia, where leftists continue to hold so many levers like tenure, is another story. Conservatives are still trickling into the institutions, though, so maybe there's some hope.
ReplyDeleteThe last time a 3rd party rose and replaced a major party was in the 1850s when the Whigs collapsed. And the 1850s were probably the most divisive period in American history. We think things are polarizing now, good God they were far worse back then.
ReplyDeleteK, I like the idea. "We ran a story referring to Obama as 'a complete failure'? Why, we had no idea!!! Must have been a typo...."
ReplyDeleteAndrew, to modify your point a bit, having conservatives competing for the title of "least moderate" can be a good thing at times--particularly if there are others willing to fly under the radar and pose as moderates to seem more acceptable.
ReplyDeleteThis is partly how the Left took over so many institutions. The hippie radicals of the '60s and early '70s had everyone's attention, sure; but there were also a lot of leftists who had already worked their way into academia, the legal profession, etc., and put on an appearance of sobriety and deep thinking--even though they were just as wild-eyed politically as the SDS crowd.
Anthony, that's true to a point, and I would agree that it makes a lot of sense for a newspaper or magazine to openly take a liberal or conservative stance. As to the public's reaction, though, that's a different story. Some people would actively choose to accept or reject such a publication, of course, but among the people who aren't very politically aware--and there are a lot of them--what ideological line a paper takes often doesn't count for much. Maybe that's the local newspaper, or they just happen to like that particular paper. It's the same reason a lot of people who aren't liberal at all continue to watch the network evening news.
ReplyDeleteAnd just like certain aspects of the liberal worldview filter down from the newscasters to the general audience, having more conservative publications would broadcast our views to more people.
tryanmax, better late than never?
ReplyDeleteKit, good point, and naturally very much in line with what I said earlier. :-) At least no one's seriously threatening secession and open violence. We've had a few three-way elections since 1860, but never another four-way election.
ReplyDeleteAnthony, I disagree. A good chunk of the public still trusts the "major" providers of news and assumes they are unbiased. So hearing nothing but liberalism does warp people's perceptions. Adding conservatism to the mix will have an effect.
ReplyDeleteT-Rav, I agree with you that you about the left in the 1960. But the problem is that the entire Republican Party/conservative movement doesn't understand that point. They genuinely try to destroy anyone who doesn't toe the line. That makes the idea of people posing as moderates impossible because once you try, you get burned at the stake.
ReplyDeleteWhen I was in college, I had more difficulty than I could explain understanding the "Parliamentary System". Finally, I got it - sorta - but for a smart kid, it was confusing... it still doesn't make practical sense. Messy and scattered and strange-bedfellows making.
ReplyDeletethe Electoral College made more sense to me!
[my gov't prof thought this process (him explaining, me going away to think about it, me losing the thread, megoing back and asking him to explain it again, repeat) was entertaining.]
RE: Koch Bros. - Wall-to-wall coverage accusing the Kochs of aiming to destroy American journalism is to be expected. What I'm more interested in seeing is whether the Tribune Company's owners will actually sell to the Kochs or refuse "on principle."
ReplyDeleteIf the Kochs are able to buy, then it's a win-win for conservatives. One one hand, you have more conservative voices in the media, balancing the general skew. On the other hand, you force liberals to disavow papers as a legitimate news source. Sure, they'll cling to their bastions like the Times and the Post, but for the average person, it'll be too much to navigate and just seem like they don't like newsprint.
The Tribune is apparently in bankruptcy along with some other papers and they may not have a choice except to accept the highest offer. It will be interesting to watch.
ReplyDeleteBTW,
ReplyDeleteKoch Bros. buying up papers = EVIL
Warren Buffet buying up papers = *yawn*
Yeah, I almost mentioned that. It's cool when liberals do it... especially liberals who pretend to be conservatives.
ReplyDeleterla, don't feel bad. I still don't understand aspects of the parliamentary system, and I really don't get those countries which, like France, combine aspects of both. Leave it to Europe to be so confusing with proportional representation and party lists and so on. At least we keep things simple, right?
ReplyDeletetryanmax and Andrew, as a corollary, it's cool when guys who "care" about how much their secretary makes do it.
ReplyDeletePersonally, I'm still waiting on the day when NBC has to throw in the towel and put itself up for sale. Maybe the Koch brothers should hold out for that.
Speaking of the Koch Brothers buying up newspapers - Breitbart is having a banner day - the NYT confirmed what Andrew Breitbart/Breitbart.com wrote in their investigation into the Pigford USDA payouts.
ReplyDeleteLINK
Kind of hard to believe that the NYT would actually write this kind of investigative article. It actually harks back to the days of REAL journalism. Must be the new female editor...;-)
Wow, so the cold day in Hell has arrived... the NYT actually did an investigative piece that is critical of liberals and liberal ideas.
ReplyDeleteAs an aside, wasn't the original Commentarama a minority farmer who heinous discrimination back in the day? I think so. I wonder where I can apply?
Andrew - Yes, I remember that, AND as I recall there was several female farmers who were heinously discriminated against too. I think we referred to them as the "Commentarama-girl farmers".
ReplyDeleteAs an aside - have you ever notices that Asians are never counted in the list of "aggrieved minorities" worthy of payoffs....er...free money...er settlements from the government?
Bev, I noticed that, though I didn't look into it too closely. Personally, I wouldn't make too much of it. It's no longer an issue, and Breitbart has sadly departed the political scene, so it's safe to report on now. Really, they're the same as the media outlets who waited until the election was over to admit that Obama lied about X during the debates, or that WH economic policy Y had had negative effects. They can report the news just fine, as long as it won't inconvenience the wrong people too much.
ReplyDeleteIf we're going to be seeking reparations (and that's the proper term for it, Bev, not "free money"....you bigot), meanwhile, don't forget those Commentarama farmers who were just living an alternate lifestyle and fell victim to homophobia. So sad, that.
ReplyDeleteSo, as of now, we've got Commentarama-girls, Commentarama-gays, and Commentara-Minorities Unspecifieds. Does that about cover it?
ReplyDeleteT-Rav - I am just surprised that they actually did an investigative report on an issue that doesn't make Obama, Holder, or anyone else in the Obama Admin look good at all. They practically scream in bold-letter "NYT-speak" that "Breitbart was right and the NYT being the NYT should have listened. Wow, do WE look like we haven't done OUR jobs, huh?" Of course it comes out as "This issue came up on Breitbart.com in 2010".
"This issue came up on Breitbart.com in 2010"
ReplyDeleteThat's the trick: they tell you up front that this is old news and so it's safe to ignore. Most people don't feel outrage that they weren't told something sooner unless somebody tells them that they should be outraged that they weren't told something sooner. Plus, when they do a huge 8-page exposé, that's usually the first-and-last most people ever hear of it. So it never reaches the level of importance in people's minds of a story that the media harps on, like the air traffic controllers story.
If anybody does decide to bring it up again, say on a Sunday show, the reference to Breitbart is enough for a fellow panelist to rebuff as something only conservatives care about because it makes 0bama look bad. Instantly, the story is no longer bad, it's just being spun that way.
Various news outlets did this sort of thing with Fast & Furious prior to the election. It would occasionally be acknowledged as that thing conservatives obsess over when,--ah ha ha!--I thought Fast & Furious was a movie! Who knew? Those crazy Tea Baggers! But to be fair, running guns to Mexican cartels does kinda sound like it could be a Vin Diesel movie!--ah ha ha!--Government involvement? Well, I sure hope they're involved! Those cartels are a menace! Next, in entertainment news...
A similar thing is going on right now with the Kermit Gosnell trial, only b/c the thing is too horrible to just laugh off, MSM outlets that acknowledge the story are claiming they don't have to cover it because the right-wing media is covering it enough. Kid you not, I read an editorial that said just that. That's just one more way of telling the audience to ignore it b/c it only matters to the crazies.
Bev, don't get me wrong, it's definitely better than nothing. All I'm saying is, it needs to be put in perspective. But yes, any time a leftist rag like the NYT gives Breitbart or any conservative his due, it needs to be mentioned.
ReplyDeletetryanmax, absolutely. Just watch, they'll get around to talking about the disaster that is "Fast and Furious." It may not be until after Obama is out of office, but they'll get around to it, sure enough.
ReplyDeleteThe Gosnell thing is just horrific on every level, including the media's utter hypocrisy. Guns that murder children are a story, but people that murder children are not. I think on some level the people in the media know this, and therefore you hear bizarre explanations like that. Which is not the worst I've heard: Someone at WaPo replied to a query along this line that she (this journalist) covers only national stories, and not local ones. Yeah.
Oh yes, I've heard the "it's just a local story" thing, too. Which is why the MSM is obsessed with North Dakota's "heartbeat law."
ReplyDeleteBecause I'm a Google-miner: Hilariously, the same reporter who in a tweet dismissed the Gosnell case as a local story published a column the day prior about NYC's large soda ban. Of course, there is the matter that anything happening in NYC is, de facto, of national significance because something, something, fahgettaboudit.
ReplyDeleteYes, T-Rav, the MSM had to be shamed into covering Gosnell's trial. And yes, they excuse is that they don't usually cover local news. Well, of course Newtown was "local news" too. And of course, there just wasn't a way to spin it that made late term abortion palatable and the fact that Obama unequivocally supports this kind of abortion made it worse for them, so they ignore it.
ReplyDeletetryanmax, you will admit that it takes considerable mental gymnastics for an East Coast reporter to place events in North Dakota in the category of "national news" and events in the Philly metro area in the category of "local news."
ReplyDeleteAs for the NYC soda ban being covered by this hack....sigh.
Bev, I gotta say, it takes a lot of gall for Obama to attend a Planned Parenthood rally after everything that's come out with this Gosnell trial. There are so many reasons I want to jack that half-man in the face.
ReplyDeleteLike I said above, journalists lie to themselves even more than they lie to us, and that's saying something.
T-Rav, gall is ending an address to Planned Parenthood with "God bless you."
ReplyDeletehttp://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2013/04/26/remarks-president-planned-parenthood-conference
tryanmax, I didn't bring that up because a) I didn't want to get off on a rant and b) that's more in the range of blasphemy than mere gall. Just saying.
ReplyDelete