(1) Denial of Service. Keep them busy. Everyone should call the Obamacare hotlines and visit the Obamacare websites when they start. This is called denial of service. Just spend your time there using their servers, clogging their phone systems and chatting with their "volunteers"... they don't have very many. What would you chat about? Well, you're a consumer, you have every right to see how much they want to give you as a subsidy and what the various plans will cost you and what they will cover. And while they're talking to you, they aren't talking to other people.
(2) Denial of Funding. You can't defund the program itself, but you can do your part to make sure it is starved of cash... profit actually. In particular, the goal needs to be to make sure that only the truly sick (the uninsurables) sign up through the Exchanges. The reasoning is simple. The Quisling Insurers who have signed up for the Exchanges are betting on the mandate to force people who don't need insurance to sign up and pay inflated rates to subsidize the uninsurables who will race to sign up. Without those healthy subsidy-providers, the insurers will go broke as their actuarial assumptions will be all wrong and they will either fall out of the program with huge losses (possibly bankruptcy-level losses) or they will jack up their rates extremely high to cover the pool of very expensive people who signed up, which will keep everyone else from signing up, which will create a vicious cycle which will collapse the program.
You can help make this happen by avoiding the Exchanges. Here are your best options in order of bestiness:
(1) Don't get insurance, don't pay the fine. That's the ideal state of being. (FYI, the IRS has issued their regulations and it is not criminal to skip paying the fine and they can't come after your property or your wages. The only way they can collect it is by keeping your refund... which you can prevent.)(3) No Rest For The Wicked. Start thinking about calling your Democratic Congress/Senate critter about once a month to let them know you aren't happy about their attempts to destroy our healthcare. Call them about every single issue that comes up with your insurance. Get your friends to do the same. If they ever dare to have a Town Hall, this should be the primary topic, complete with statistics they can't answer and sob stories... my aunt lost her insurance because of you... and her job too! Make them regret voting for this thing and keep them scared that there are thousands others out there like you who want to punish them for it.
(2) Get insurance through work if it's offered. Encourage other employees to do the same, unless the business is getting their insurance through the Exchanges. In that case, skip it and pick another option.
(3) Encourage everyone who can stay on their parent's policy to do so.
(4) Don't get insurance, pay the fine. Paying the fine sends the money to Uncle Sam, not the insurers. In other words, even though Uncle Sam may use the money to pay for the subsidies, this doesn't increase the overall amount of money the insurers take in. That is the same practical effect as not buying insurance at all as far as the insurers are concerned and it will still hurt their rates.
(5) If you feel the need to get insurance, then buy it from a company that does not participate in the Exchanges. Buying insurance from an Exchange participant, even if it's not from the Exchange, is the same thing as buying through the Exchanges. Boycott companies in the Exchanges.
(6) If you have a medical condition that will cost a lot of money, then by all means buy through the Exchanges. The more expensive you are, the better. Pick on smaller insurers if possible. They will have smaller capital reserves.
(7) If you have insurance through an Exchange for some reason, use the hell out of it, especially the things that are supposed to be free under the policies.
Any other thoughts?
I can tell somebody in public media has been brought to worry about denial of service issues. NPR is devoting time almost daily to Obamacare Q&A's. They seem to be rotating through all their programs trying to hit as many timeslots as possible. I would expect soon for there to be multiple shows devoted to Q&A's on the same day.
ReplyDeleteWhat thoughts do you have for those of us with no Congress critters who voted for O-crap, I mean, O-care? The attaboys have been awarded. Now we just don't need them doing anything stupid. What do we tell them?
I would say the thing to tell those people is:
ReplyDelete1. Stop listening to the fringe... anger and stupidity don't sell, the only make you look angry and stupid.
2. Let Obamacare do its damage. You can't save people who don't realize yet they need to be saved. Let the public experience the horrors that is liberalism... then step in to fix it.
3. Get a fricken healthcare plan. Tell 'em to buy my book and adopt that medical plan.
Tryanmax - Imhave plenty of Congress Critters to share. Maybe we can have lists of questions and I can send them. I will be happy to harass them with "hearsay" questions. Schumer, Gillibrand, and Maloney were very active and front and center in voting for O'Care. Let them explain it.
ReplyDeleteObamacare will have its worst in the first year. Those who do not have insurance will overuse it and those who are in that category of " makes too little to afford/makes too much for subsidies" will STILL be left out. And those who get insurance from their employers still will have until the end of their enrollment contact (mine is June 2014) to have to make a decision or for their employers to drop coverage.
Andrew.....I think that is the biggest issue that will kill this program. Kill the insurers. But then the expensive insured will be forced into a 'Medicaid' type gov't funded healthcare system, which is what these a'holes wanted all along.
ReplyDeleteAlso, Obama was absolutely correct when he brayed..."If you like your current plan, you can keep it." What he didn't say, was ".....except it will cost you over 300% more every month for your 'cadillac' plan. Heh, heh, heh. But you can keep it if you want!"
What bothers me a lot about this, is the politically motivated abuse that will come from the hands of petty bureaucrats who will have access to your health history. It's one thing to have the 'metadata' about someone's internet and phone use, it's quite another to have their medical history readily available so that you can "make the best decision possible" regarding their health plan.
I agree with your overall thesis....The best way to kill this would be the Cloward-Pliven approach. Use their own tactics against them. Overwhelm the system.
I am very doubtful of the government's (esp. the Federales) ability to run anything well. My middle son will be off my insurance early next year, he is a college student, a member of the National Guard and using grants and some P/T work to get by,,luckily he's not married at the moment. Missouri is not setting up an exchange so his choices for insurors is very limited. His best bet is to find a way to get deployed so he can get his veteran's status and use the VA. The college he goes to had a plan for students like him that was fairly affordable, it beat nothing, but they have dropped it due to the impending law change. Anytime, anytime, I hear Democrats talking that they are helping the middle class I want to throw up. Growing up in the Ozarks did not prepare me for a world where you have to be diplomatic, all I can say is that I know a lying SOB when I hear one and he's in the White House. I told my son to just do nothing for now, Hell, even if they keep his tax return, it's almost nothing, far cheaper than the premiums he would have to pay..
ReplyDeleteI guess if the media lackeys show up nearby, you could find them while they're on camera and photobomb the heck out of them. Demand to know why they're carrying Obama's water, and all that. But probably that's a rare target of opportunity.
ReplyDeleteSo how do we prevent the IRS from keeping our refund (per option 1)?
T-Rav - re: How do you keep the IRS from keeping your refund? [Don't pay them in the first place...though you didn't hear that from me.]* As you know, I am seriously considering Tax prison as my retirement plan...8-X
ReplyDelete*I put this in brackets and italicized for extra protect. I hear that the IRS can't read bracketed/italicized words and phrases...
Bev, Exactly. That's why this program can be broken now. If healthy people don't give the insurers money, and if the very sick sign up, then rates will skyrocket next year and a vicious circle starts where it becomes too expensive to attract people, which means only the really sick stay on board and the rates keep shooting up and insurers keep dropping out.
ReplyDeleteThat's why the bigger insurers are leaving the exchanges... they see what's about to happen.
Patriot, This is the way to kill it. The current rates are probably high enough to create a backlash already, but if the rates double or triple, then this is done for sure. And this is how it happens.
ReplyDeleteInterestingly, the Feds have put aside $10 billion to cover the uninsurables. But their own attempt to insure those people the last two years ate through $5 billion and only covered 1% of those people. So the math isn't going to work.
As for the feds covering the uninsurables, they won't -- they can't afford it. That's why they did this, to force the cost onto consumers in a hidden way.
Critch, Doing nothing for now makes sense. The fine is only 1% of income and they can't collect it. That's a lot more affordable than paying a couple hundred dollars a month for insurance he can't use.
ReplyDeleteAnd you're right, this thing is a total mess. It's so amazingly poorly thought out, and it will add another anvil to the backs of the middle class. The Democrats have been more destructive to the middle class than nuclear war.
Patriot is right. Health insurance companies are one of the enemies of the Left's grand utopian dreams. Punishing insurance companies plays right into the Left's desire to eliminate the free market, piece by piece.
ReplyDeleteT-Rav, I would say just keep mentioning it. The way Congressional types work is they listen to volume and intensity. If you keep calling and sending letters, it will scare them if enough people do it.
ReplyDeleteAs for the media, they don't care.
On the taxes, they WILL keep your refund, so make sure there is no refund -- raise your dependents for withholding.
In fact, that's going to be a funny consequence of this. Uncle Sam depends on people overpaying their taxes. He uses that money throughout the year to fund himself. It's like an interest free loan to Uncle Sam. This law will probably slash that amount. So the Feds are going to have cash flow problems.
Bev, I hear that tax prison is a wonderful place. :)
ReplyDeleteSeriously, just claim more dependents on your W-whatever it is for work so they reduce the withholding. That is perfectly legal. That way you owe money rather than getting a refund. Then the IRS can't touch you on this.
Basically, you'll have a nice little fine building up they can't collect and will one day forgive... when the program dies or during various amnesties.
And for those who don't adjust their withholdings, they'll get an unpleasant surprise in April where they thought their hefty "let's go buy a new TV" refund was going to be.
ReplyDeleteMountain Man, That's completely wrong.
ReplyDeleteThe insurers are the enemies of capitalism on this. They are not only the tool of socialism, they are willing collaborators... hell, they lobbied for this because they think they're going to make a fortune!
They have traded the favor of covering the uninsurable in exchange for the profit they expect from Obama forcing healthy people to buy their product. That is crony socialism and defending the insurers is defending Obamacare.
Crushing those who participate in the Exchanges is the only way this bill will die.
tryanmax, Bingo. In fact, Walmart is worried about that because their biggest season is refund season. They actually took a hit this last year when refunds were down owing to the expiration of the Bush Tax Cuts, and they are very worried that refunds will either be a thing of the past or will be absorbed by the IRS because of Obamacare.
ReplyDeleteAndrew, now I'm wondering if Obamacare wasn't just a Rube Goldberg scheme to destroy Walmart. LOL!
ReplyDeleteLOL! That would definitely make Obama an evil genius if he could put this together.
ReplyDeleteI am just quickly changing the subject and then we can get right back to this...
ReplyDeleteObama is now stating as he reaches Sweden for the G8 conference, that he never said anything about a red line in Syria being HIS red line. It was the global red line...
Just to be clear this is Obama's original statement in August 2012 as quoted in WaPo:
"We have been very clear to the Assad regime, but also to other players on the ground, that a red line for us is we start seeing a whole bunch of chemical weapons moving around or being utilized. That would change my calculus,” Obama said. “That would change my equation. . . . We’re monitoring that situation very carefully. We have put together a range of contingency plans.”
And Obama is already trying to run for cover by blaming Congress for their inaction/or action depending on how it falls out in the end). And McCain just backed out stating the Senate's proposal does not go far enough...I kind of like that McCain waited for Obama to leave the country to do this. Obama thought he had him in his pocket yesterday...hey, if you are going to make it political, make it political.
Now back to your regular commenting...
Andrew,
ReplyDelete"In fact, Walmart is worried about that because their biggest season is refund season. They actually took a hit this last year when refunds were down owing to the expiration of the Bush Tax Cuts, and they are very worried that refunds will either be a thing of the past or will be absorbed by the IRS because of Obamacare."
Didn't Wal-Mart endorse Obamacare?
"Start thinking about calling your Democratic Congress/Senate critter about once a month to let them know you aren't happy about their attempts to destroy our healthcare."
ReplyDeleteAlas, all my representatives are Republicans. I don't even have a Democrat State Senator.
Bev, Clearly, he only drew the line in yellow instead of red?
ReplyDeleteKit, Yes, they did. They want to dump their healthcare plans on the government.
ReplyDelete"Alas, all my representatives are Republicans."
ReplyDeleteSame here, Kit. The only bright spot is that my current rep, Keith Rothfus, brought down the House of Murtha last year by beating the Great Jagoff's Successor, Mark Critz, following redistricting. Hm...maybe I should've mentioned that after last November's election to ease the pain.
And to add insult to injury, my current governor, Tom Corbett, is the former PA state attorney general who helped file the lawsuit against Obamacare. Just not too many big name Dems available and in office in PA at the moment.
Heck, almost all the big-name Democrats in this state- Philly's Vince Fumo (just released), Green County's Bill Deweese, and Butler County's Mike Veon (who shares a striking resemblance to Old Scratch)- have all been fitted for stripes after being convicted of corruption charges. Geez, Bonusgate has been nasty since it broke in 2008.
Repubs have been hit, too. Former state senator and alleged she-wolf Jane Orie was taken down for allegedly using her staff for campaign work. So was her sister, now former PA State Supreme Court Justice Jane Orie Melvin. Oh, yeah. The third sister/aide, Janine, also got convicted. (I should note several others have also been convicted and sent to prison in this scandal.)
All this as we continue to wait for the trials of Graham Spanier, Gary Schultz, and Tim Curley. Not facing trial: the Old Man- because he's dead. Well, that's one way not to have to face the judge.
See, Bev? We're catching up in the Keystone State!
But, in all seriousness, Andrew, isn't bankrupting the insurance suckers, er, companies what the Dems wanted all along in order to force the U.S. onto the single payer system? -by claiming that's the only reliable solution when everything else falls apart? Call me skeptical, but a public that elected and re-elected O-Doofus doesn't strike me as the type to see the light and think rationally.
Andrew - Wanted to let you and all of the gang know that I'm alive and well. Not much energy yet and even a little ipad mini is not real comfortable so I probably won't post much for a while. Still, you made me laugh hard enough for my chest to hurt
ReplyDeleteJed, I've been thinking about you! I'm glad to hear you're ok! :)
ReplyDeleteRustbelt, It sounds like PA is overrun by the supernatural.
ReplyDeleteNo, this is not what the Democrats want. The left wants a single payer system. But that's too expensive -- would double the budget. So what they are trying to do here is to sneak the costs of a single payer system on insurance consumers. They've gotten the insurers to go along with it (actually, the insurers lobbied for it) by promising to force everyone to buy insurance. That way 40 million new customers get pushed into the system to offset the added costs. This has the insurers salivating because that means around $320 billion in new business.
If we don't buy the insurance, then the insurers who are in the exchanges will either blow up (the smaller ones), fall out (the reputable ones), or jack up their rates to the point that no one but the truly sick will use the exchanges. The result of that will be intense pressure to kill the individual mandate, which will kill Obamacare.
Keep in mind that insurers outside the exchanges are only slightly effected by all of this. The goal is to break the exchanges by jacking up the costs within the exchanges.
Then it's back to square one for the Democrats. That's when conservatives need to finally propose real reform.
Rustbelt, Also, I wouldn't put much faith in the "a public who re-elected Obama" worry. The problem wasn't the public. They stayed away from him in droves... nine million fewer votes. The problem was the suicidal right.
ReplyDeleteSee, Bev? We're catching up in the Keystone State!
ReplyDeleteRustbelt - I wasn't aware that it was a competition! But as long as it is,
Aaah, your politicians wear ahmy boots! NY is No. 1 and always WILL be because we have the smartest, most devious-est, bestest criminal politicians ever! LOL!
My Representative is Corrine Brown, a big D but there is no point in me trying to contact her as I am sure my name is on her enemy's list.
ReplyDeleteSIGH
I assisted in the Mark Little run against her a black Republican in 94. I was a poll watcher and I have shot my mouth off about the 10 precints drawn arund HUD projects where against the D primary challenger Alvin Brown (now our Mayor) we got intel that there was 99% voter turn out and the precincts went 95% to 99% for Sista Corrine (their vernacular for her). I also sat in the Fire Station where the voting was going on and 200 people from buses parked quarter mile down the road so that I the RNC poll wactcher would not see then flooded in and someone over the Fire Station intercom started repeating Vote for Chiles! Vote for Chiles! until I got up and left and went into the anteroom chasing whoever it was out.
Lawton Chiles was running for Governor that year. It was the best guess of the other campaign experts on our staff that Lawton made a sizable donation to the right people so that their people would be told to vote and not leave that part of the ballot blank.
No one can prove any of this. Any rate I got a call leaving me a message with her voice asking me to vote for Alvin for Mayor several years later. I think that was by someone's design. I am certain the IRS will be interested in how I handle health care from here on in. Politicians are crooks and they like disasters even ones they create because they make so much money on the side fixing them.
Bev, I accept your challenge! But I warn yinz...never underestimate the cesspool of scum and villainy that is Philadelphia- the place that gave us fmr. governor Ed Rendell. For as long as there's Philly, PA will always be a force in the political underworld!
ReplyDeleteAnd thanks for the info, Andrew. This whole thing is just a pain to follow.
BTW...your 'supernatural' comment now has me thinking of a zombified Paterno breaking into the Spanier-Schultz-Curley trial and screaming "BRAINSSSSS!!!!" Of course, sports reporters will have nothing to worry about.
Bev, New York has a stunning number of career criminals as politician. It's impressive. It's like some banana republic.
ReplyDeleteI can't even think of a single Colorado politician who has been arrest in my life time.
Indi, It will be interesting to see how the IRS handles this. The regs say clearly that the IRS can't come after you criminally or with liens. The only thing they can do is grab your refund... if you have one. It doesn't really talk about interest though. So presumably, these fines will keep growing, but will never be collectible.
ReplyDeleteHence, I think we will get periodic amnesties.
Rustbelt, I hate that... y'inz. Blech. In Wheeling they actually said "you'nz."
ReplyDeleteYou're welcome, it is a pain. And sadly, few are bothering to understand that. They are just screaming about it, which makes it even harder to follow. This thing is a mess and it needs to be killed.
Paterno back from the dead. LOL! Yikes.
As for me, I've got the trifecta of Democrats at my disposal - Charles "Chuckles The Dem" Schumer, Sen. Kirsten "I Replaced Hillary Clinton" Gillibrand, and Carolyn "I Am Not A Maverick and Have Never Vote Against the Dems" Maloney.
ReplyDeleteFeel free to pass on any complaints or questions and I will send them to my reps as my own. I will warn you - they have a tendency to take weeks, even months to respond (if at all). That's why I do it all in writing/by email. I learned very early that they don't like it when anyone who respectfully disagrees with their espoused agenda or asks logical questions that they cannot respond to without looking like idiots.
Okay, read this article that I have linked to - what is missing in the equations.
ReplyDeleteLINK
Hint: Not one mention of what the deductibles will be in dollars and cents.
Wow, the AP is actually worrying about the cost of Obamacare. See, despite all the fake PR about how cheap the plans will be, they now say that the average premiums will be this:
ReplyDelete-- $270 per month for a 21-year-old buying a mid-range policy.
-- $330 per month for a 40-year-old buying a mid-range plan.
-- $615 per month for a 60-year-old.
Team Obama keeps pointing to the subsidies, which won't actually help most people.
LOL! Bev, I just read this and had the same thought. :)
ReplyDeleteNo one EVER mentions the deductibles. They also don't tell you what the subsidies will be.
Here is the money paragraph -
ReplyDelete"It compared four levels of plans available under Obama's law: bronze, silver, gold and platinum. Bronze plans will cover 60 percent of expected medical costs; silver plans will cover 70 percent; gold will cover 80 percent, and platinum 90 percent."
It's going to be interesting...
Bev, True. And they are mixing and matching when they talk about costs and subsidies. They've made it ultra confusing because they truth stinks.
ReplyDeleteSpeaking of stinking, Kerry is now saying that some unnamed Arab countries (read: Saudi Arabia) offered to pay for the cost of the invasion if we take out Assad.
ReplyDeleteSo Obama doesn't want to go to war with Syria, he just wants to slap them around a bit, and he wants to be paid to do it. Tell me this isn't getting more "pimp" every day.
Andrew - I just saw that. What now, is the US military now available for hire?? Hey, maybe Mexico can rent them out to patrol their borders!
ReplyDeleteThis is from WashPo -
“With respect to Arab countries offering to bear costs and to assess, the answer is profoundly yes,” Kerry said. “They have. That offer is on the table.”
Asked by Rep. Ileana Ros-Lehtinen (R-Fla.) about how much those countries would contribute, Kerry said they have offered to pay for all of a full invasion.
“In fact, some of them have said that if the United States is prepared to go do the whole thing the way we’ve done it previously in other places, they’ll carry that cost,” Kerry said. “That’s how dedicated they are at this. That’s not in the cards, and nobody’s talking about it, but they’re talking in serious ways about getting this done.
Oh, btw, Happy New Year. Israel is bracing for a new Yom Kippur War next week...
ReplyDeleteI'm confused. Gold, silver, platinum? I thought the new healthcare law was all about equality, fraternity, and other French ideals. Except for fries. Those'll clog your arteries.
ReplyDeleteBev, Sounds like a good time for a war with Syria! They could make it an annual tradition! Just don't chose the home/away format... play them all in Syria.
ReplyDeletetryanmax, How dare you, sir! Obama would never do anything that promotes inequality.
ReplyDeleteOh... wait.
"Seriously, just claim more dependents on your W-whatever it is for work so they reduce the withholding. That is perfectly legal. That way you owe money rather than getting a refund. Then the IRS can't touch you on this."
ReplyDeleteOkay Andrew.. I admit it. That's a better plan than my "just don't pay and go to tax prison" retirement plan...:-D