Isn't that the truth. I unfortunately caught a few minutes of Bill Maher on tonight and he had some guest on who would not agree that Islamic terrorists are motivated by "religion." He just refused to make the connection even when he said that they are acting in the name of religion. It was both funny (because Maher was shocked and frustrated with the guy) and disturbing because it was like listening to something out of Orwell's works.
Just in case you might think this an isolated incident. Apparently Chechnyan Islamists have penchant for killing children. i remember these from 2002 and 2004.
Andrew, I remember years ago after the Breslan school attack, Dennis Miller (he still had his show then) had his panel discussion on the attack. He called it evil and one of the libs at the table shot back "oh let's not call it "evil", let's call it "whack"! Every person at the table was stunned. Her reasoning was that "evil" had religious connotations. I think Miller shot back if we can't call taking hundreds of children hostages and then killing some them evil, what CAN we call evil?
Its a shame the other brother wasn't competent enough to kill himself or get himself killed. Trying him and jailing him until he kicks off of old age just strikes me as a waste of time and resources.
Hopefully some inmate will do the world a favor and collapse the guy's ribcage or something.
The fact the terrorists were Muslims doesn't come as a deep shock to me. Most Muslims aren't terrorists but most terrorists are Muslims.
I'm curious to learn if these guys were lone crazies or if they were part of Al Queda or something. One would think that Al Queda would have used American operatives (who they can't have a lot of) more effectively, but who knows?
Bev, that reminds me of when some of us in college were watching Enemy at the Gates and Black Hawk Down as kind of a movie marathon, and I happened to remark that it was ideal because we got to see evil people--Nazis and Islamist killers--being blown away. Our RA replied by saying, "Yeah, but who's to say what's evil?"
......
I don't remember what I said in response, I only know that I shut her up.
Bev, That is indeed a Chechen specialty. I saw a documentary on both and it's really horrific. And I have to say that any sympathy you could have for Chechnya vanished the moment they killed those kids in the school. At that point, I can honestly say that I didn't care if the Russians leveled the whole country.
This was bizarre on Maher last night. I only caught a few minutes, but Maher kept asking him, what motivates these people and he said,
Guest: "There are three types, there's some want economic gain, some are whackos, and some are motivated by ideology or religion."
Maher then said, "So you admit religion has a role in this."
And the guy said, "No."
Maher looked stunned and he said something like "if you have a bunch of people from the same religion all doing this and they claim to be doing it in the name of the religion..."
And the guy cut him off and said, "people claim to do bad things in the name of all sorts of things. Religion isn't their motivation."
Maher: "But you just said it was."
Guest: "No, religion is not their motivation."
It was bizarre. It was Orwellian doublespeak and I was seriously waiting to hear the guy say "religion is double-plus good."
Anthony, I am a firm believer in letting this guy die in the worst possible way in prison. As T-Rav mentioned yesterday, we should start a pool to pay off the guards to look the other way.
I agree with your formula. Most Muslims are not terrorists, but almost all modern terrorist are Muslims. And if Muslims want to break that association, then need to start doing something. They should be out there denouncing these people and turning them over to purge their communities of them. Otherwise, silence equals consent... that's human nature.
Otherwise, silence equals consent...that's human nature.
Which is exactly what liberal friends of mine don't get, when they say that most Muslims see these hacks the way most Christians see the Westboro Baptist Church. That may very well be true; but I can point to any number of Christians who have publicly and repeatedly denounced the WBC. There are corresponding cases on the Muslim side, but you have to look REALLY hard to find them.
T-Rav, Liberals don't tell you what they are really thinking. They see the world in "good" and "bad" and they divide it that way and then excuse the behavior accordingly.
And I think you need to realize that they don't really care about Muslims one way or another. Muslims only matter to them to the extent that Muslims upset Christians and Conservatives. Essentially, the enemy of my enemy is angelic. If conservatives suddenly embraced Muslims, you would see liberals suddenly discover all the horrors of Islam.
Liberalism is basically anti-conservatism. Which creates and interesting loop because conservatism has become anti-liberalism. In computers that leads to the blue screen of death... which seems to be playing out in humans in our political system.
Wait? We're referring to him affectionately as "Adolphie" now? Maybe I got taken off the mailing list for refusing to say Bush II is better than Jesus.
No, we're not referring to him affectionately. I'm saying (tongue-in-cheek) that dopeheads should refer to their joints as "Adolphies" since they picked his birthday for pot day?
I agree. Pierce was a great character, Alda is a tool. And I love the quote above. It is total nonsense, but it makes so much sense in some strange way.
Alda is one of the best practitioners of the English language (American edition) of the 20th c. What makes the quote so brilliant is that it plays on the ambiguities the English language has about time. Our language is really rooted in the here-and-now compared to other languages, so it's very easy to condense things that span a length of time into a verbal moment. The inconsistency makes for great "wait, what did he say?" type of humor. I suspect that a joke like that simply cannot be related in some other languages.
No problem on the Adlophies. I wouldn't want any liberals who happened by thinking that we were endorsing Hilterism or dope smoking. I just think it's worth pointing out that our dope smoking friends chose their day poorly... because you know they would point it out if we held International Conservatism Day today.
So think about that as you take a hitler on your Adolphies my dope smoking friends.
You're probably right about out language. I doubt this joke would work in German precisely because the two concept of what would be and what will happen require different explanations that would sever the humorous part of the joke. I mean, you can translate it simply enough, but I don't think the ironic meaning would come across all that well... it would just sound stupid rather than clever.
Speaking of language, something I noticed listening to NPR yesterday. Let me preface by reminding everyone that the left routinely admonishes against "dehumanizing" the "other" in any dialogue. Not bad advice, really, so long as one attempts to follow it. Which brings me to the funny part:
The conversation was about gun control and how the president's measure went down in flames in the Senate of all places. NPR was aghast. How did this happen? Well, to hear them tell it, there was no human opposition to the gun control measures. No. It all came from a singular mysterious entity known only as The Ehn Array. Oh sure, they talked about The Ehn Array's members, but in much the same way one would speak of arms and legs as members of the body. I though, how classic!
tryanmax, I as sort of mentioned to T-Rav above, I no longer give any credence to the moralistic arguments made by the left because I've come to realize they are just for show and aren't meant to be taken as genuine positions. Essentially, they argue "___ is evil" when they accuse you of racism, but they ignore their own ____.
In effect, the left has become a group who divide the world into good/bad on some basis they won't tell you about, and those are the only values that really matter to them. Any other pretense of values is just that -- a pretense, to be used to attack "the bad" and shield "the good". There's no actual logic or consistency... their words are meaningless.
"There are corresponding cases on the Muslim side, but you have to look REALLY hard to find them."
There is a reason for their rarity. They don't get any support. The only people I've seen trumpeting people like, say, M. Zuhdi Jasser and his American Islamic Forum for Democracy are Dennis Prager and Andrew McCarthy. And the Muslim groups that do get political support from the government, like CAIR, are pretty much radicals in disguise.
Also, the revealing of CAIR as a "radicals in disguise" agency turned many conservatives to the idea that Islam as a whole is an inherent evil. So you have a lot of them coming in line w/ Robert Spencer and his JihadWatch which, while doing a good job tracking Islamist crimes, also preaches the idea that Islam is utterly unreformable and inherently evil. Now, take that message, preached and followed by a number of conservatives, put it on the right next to the left's message that Muslims are oppressed by EEEVIL America and Israel and that America is xenophobic and hates people who are not white ensures that many Muslims, particularly young Muslims (hint, hint), will think that the left is right and, as a result, feel utterly unwelcome in the United States and therefore have difficulty assimilating.
And, since people need to be in a group or community, when they can't assimilate into American society they are going to find a group they can find welcoming...
Kit, The Muslim problem is something we do share part of the blame for in a sense.
1. The British never should have formed them into countries... leave them as meaningless tribes.
2. We should not have helped their dictators. AND we should never have let them use us as a scapegoat.
3. The ones who come here (or Europe) should have been told up front, you can keep your religion, but not your practices. Civil law trumps religious belief and you can't oppress your women, you can't honor kill, you can't rape, you can't torture animals or any of the other sick crap their putrid little book tells them to do.
Those three things brought us into their infighting. We should not have done those.
As for the blame itself, it lies squarely on the head of a so-called religion that is about barbarism and hate. There's no other way to say it. Any religion that says that the goodness of your misconduct depends on who you do it is not worthy of the slightest hint of respect. It is a prejudice hiding as philosophy, like Nazism. And it lies firmly on the believers who are so sick in the head that they don't see the vileness of their own beliefs.
That's about the nicest thing I can say about their "religion."
Also, if you are a Muslim like Zuhdi Jasser, why would you speak out frankly against terror. If you do, you tend to get 3 responses. 1). Condemnation from fellow Muslims and the leftist community.
Fromt the right you get 2). Dismissal for being at best naive and, at worst, a liar.
A few people like Dennis Prager might help you out a bit.
Kit, All the great people of history who brought genuine, decent change did what they did because they had the conviction that they saw something wrong and they stood up for what it right. They didn't care that left or right or their fellows wouldn't support them. They did it because it was right and they believed that good people would follow them.
I don't see a Martin Luther, a Martin Luther King, a Gandhi or a Walesa in the Muslim world.
And he does. And gets largely ignored. Yes, he gets some TV-time but nothing like CAIR and the rest do.
Islamists like CAIR condemn him because he hurts their message of victimization. Liberals ignore him because (1) condemning him would put them on the side of the Islamists and (2) supporting him would help conservatives. Conservatives ignore/dismiss him because, well, I have no idea. Maybe a distrust of Muslims due to CAIR.
In short, its kind of like what you have w/ the Black community right now. Activists to eager to peddle the sweet poison of victimization and a liberal media too cowardly to confront the issue. And Conservatives messing up in trying to handle it.
The lack of assimilation into mainstream America leads to problems. Among blacks it leads to gang violence and among Muslims it leads to terrorism.
Why do I get the sense I'm being baited to jump into a "what's wrong with conservatism" discussion?
Look, in truth, I agree. Conservatives have made a real mess of the issue. We alienate Muslims and drive them into the arms of liberals and we don't think strategically to try to win over the other groups who have suffered from their dealings with Muslims -- like most Indians (Hindus, Buddhists). I can tell you that the Indians I know HATE Muslims with a passion and with very good reason.
BUT... I'm not going to excuse Islam. Islam is a sickness, not a philosophy, and while it could perhaps be corrected, its adherents don't seem the least bit interested in fixing it.
"Why do I get the sense I'm being baited to jump into a "what's wrong with conservatism" discussion? "
:)
"I can tell you that the Indians I know HATE Muslims with a passion and with very good reason." Agreed. Call a Hindu a Muslim and you will understand that. As a bonus, while you are in traction, you will get to experience healthcare under Obama. ;)
"Islam is a sickness, not a philosophy, and while it could perhaps be corrected, its adherents don't seem the least bit interested in fixing it." I think it could be fixed, or at least moderated to a degree where its no longer as dangerous.
It ain't about finding a perfect, unflawed solution but about finding the best and most workable solution.
Kit, It can be fixed, but for that to happen, three things need to happen:
1. It needs to be decoupled from "political power." So long as Islam is seen as a viable alternative to shitty government, it will remain more ideology than religion. I think the Muslim Brotherhood taking over (and failing) in places like Egypt will do that. They will de-radicalize it because it will lose its appeal as a political force and it will retreat to just being a religion.
2. Average, Western Muslims need to speak out for change. They need to swear off the asshole parts of the "religion" and basically redefine it without the hate and in such a way that it embraces the modern world. They need to repudiate the radicals and ostracize them.
3. We need to cut the flow of money to people like the Saudis who are using their money to spread the most radical version of this idiocy to every part of the world.
Honestly, I find discussing cats that look like Hitler far more interesting/disturbing than the nature of Islam. Or at least, one's going to cause fewer tensions than the other. (Actually, they might both cause the same amount of tension, now that I think about it....)
This week has gotten me to thinking about two books I read long ago, STAND ON ZANZIBAR and THE LITTLE DRUMMER GIRL. Both books accurately predicted the rise of "hobby terrorism". The terror isn't done for any particular political or ideological reasons; to paraphrase LDG, "They just want to screw and blow things up." These two young men don't strike me as being super ideological, something doesn't seem to be in place to make them like the ones on the airplanes or in Kabul. I think it was some sort of weird game that they didn't understand the final consequences of. I'm not defending them by the way, just an observation. Thsi is the Leopold and Loeb type evil,,,just something to do to pass the time.
OMG! Listening to NPR; so much hand-wringing over the "racist" response to the Boston bombing. My observations:
1. The only "racist" response they can lament is online. i.e. People are venting but no one is lynching ethnic Chechens.
2. What they are calling "racist" is, by their own admission, not directed at the terrorists' race, but their ideology/religion.
3. Again, by the hosts' admission, most of what they have seen is directed specifically at the terrorists and not Muslims or Chechens as a whole.
I'm sure there is plenty of offensive and misdirected talk online. I say, let people vent if they aren't acting on it. Just like we can't go after Jihadis for merely preaching "Death to America."
But what these dips over at NPR are troubled about is that people would lob ethnic and religious slurs at a pair of @$$holes who blew up innocent people including children when a verbal lashing is the least of which the jerks deserve.
go figure people are mad about this bombing and are blaming the ideology that created the little s%!ts that set the bomb. they deserve your palm against their faces...
56 comments:
FYI, 4/20 is stoner day. Strangely, it's also Hitler's birthday. I'm pretty sure there's a connection... just not sure what it is.
NPR: Conservatives boogie on Adolf's birthday.
"Mein Fuhrer, I can DANCE!"
That sounds like NPR.
//shakes head sadly
Relevant, timely political cartoon: LINK
Isn't that the truth. I unfortunately caught a few minutes of Bill Maher on tonight and he had some guest on who would not agree that Islamic terrorists are motivated by "religion." He just refused to make the connection even when he said that they are acting in the name of religion. It was both funny (because Maher was shocked and frustrated with the guy) and disturbing because it was like listening to something out of Orwell's works.
Just in case you might think this an isolated incident. Apparently Chechnyan Islamists have penchant for killing children. i remember these from 2002 and 2004.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beslan_school_hostage_crisis
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moscow_theater_hostage_crisis
So this wasn't some one off kind of action...
Andrew, I remember years ago after the Breslan school attack, Dennis Miller (he still had his show then) had his panel discussion on the attack. He called it evil and one of the libs at the table shot back "oh let's not call it "evil", let's call it "whack"! Every person at the table was stunned. Her reasoning was that "evil" had religious connotations. I think Miller shot back if we can't call taking hundreds of children hostages and then killing some them evil, what CAN we call evil?
The Onion actually did a funny story about Chechens this week titled "Study: Majority Of Americans Not Informed Enough To Stereotype Chechens"!
And 4/20 is also Record Store Day... and if I had an indie record store within 20 miles of my house, I'd go, but I don't. :-)
We boogie on Hitler's birthday? Those Koch brothers are getting really shoddy about sending out the memos, b/c I never heard of it.
Its a shame the other brother wasn't competent enough to kill himself or get himself killed. Trying him and jailing him until he kicks off of old age just strikes me as a waste of time and resources.
Hopefully some inmate will do the world a favor and collapse the guy's ribcage or something.
The fact the terrorists were Muslims doesn't come as a deep shock to me. Most Muslims aren't terrorists but most terrorists are Muslims.
I'm curious to learn if these guys were lone crazies or if they were part of Al Queda or something. One would think that Al Queda would have used American operatives (who they can't have a lot of) more effectively, but who knows?
Tryanmax- those Koch brothers! Do you know they never sent me my check! That was even AFTER I sent them all my receipts for my subversive activities!
Bev, that reminds me of when some of us in college were watching Enemy at the Gates and Black Hawk Down as kind of a movie marathon, and I happened to remark that it was ideal because we got to see evil people--Nazis and Islamist killers--being blown away. Our RA replied by saying, "Yeah, but who's to say what's evil?"
......
I don't remember what I said in response, I only know that I shut her up.
Bev, That is indeed a Chechen specialty. I saw a documentary on both and it's really horrific. And I have to say that any sympathy you could have for Chechnya vanished the moment they killed those kids in the school. At that point, I can honestly say that I didn't care if the Russians leveled the whole country.
This was bizarre on Maher last night. I only caught a few minutes, but Maher kept asking him, what motivates these people and he said,
Guest: "There are three types, there's some want economic gain, some are whackos, and some are motivated by ideology or religion."
Maher then said, "So you admit religion has a role in this."
And the guy said, "No."
Maher looked stunned and he said something like "if you have a bunch of people from the same religion all doing this and they claim to be doing it in the name of the religion..."
And the guy cut him off and said, "people claim to do bad things in the name of all sorts of things. Religion isn't their motivation."
Maher: "But you just said it was."
Guest: "No, religion is not their motivation."
It was bizarre. It was Orwellian doublespeak and I was seriously waiting to hear the guy say "religion is double-plus good."
Scott, Our local independent record store went out of business when they started letting doctors sell pot. The competition was too great. LOL!
tryanmax, Yep. Instead of calling it a joint or a doobie, I guess they should it an Adlophie.
As for Koch brothers, they really do stink at sending things... like checks. I have yet to get one. :(
Anthony, I am a firm believer in letting this guy die in the worst possible way in prison. As T-Rav mentioned yesterday, we should start a pool to pay off the guards to look the other way.
I agree with your formula. Most Muslims are not terrorists, but almost all modern terrorist are Muslims. And if Muslims want to break that association, then need to start doing something. They should be out there denouncing these people and turning them over to purge their communities of them. Otherwise, silence equals consent... that's human nature.
Bev, You keep receipts? LOL! Awesome! :)
T-Rav, The best way to handle people like that is, "Wow, so you have Nazi sympathies? That's really sick."
Otherwise, silence equals consent...that's human nature.
Which is exactly what liberal friends of mine don't get, when they say that most Muslims see these hacks the way most Christians see the Westboro Baptist Church. That may very well be true; but I can point to any number of Christians who have publicly and repeatedly denounced the WBC. There are corresponding cases on the Muslim side, but you have to look REALLY hard to find them.
T-Rav, Liberals don't tell you what they are really thinking. They see the world in "good" and "bad" and they divide it that way and then excuse the behavior accordingly.
And I think you need to realize that they don't really care about Muslims one way or another. Muslims only matter to them to the extent that Muslims upset Christians and Conservatives. Essentially, the enemy of my enemy is angelic. If conservatives suddenly embraced Muslims, you would see liberals suddenly discover all the horrors of Islam.
Liberalism is basically anti-conservatism. Which creates and interesting loop because conservatism has become anti-liberalism. In computers that leads to the blue screen of death... which seems to be playing out in humans in our political system.
Wait? We're referring to him affectionately as "Adolphie" now? Maybe I got taken off the mailing list for refusing to say Bush II is better than Jesus.
BTW, I love the character of Hawkeye Pierce. Too bad Alan Alda is such a tool.
No, we're not referring to him affectionately. I'm saying (tongue-in-cheek) that dopeheads should refer to their joints as "Adolphies" since they picked his birthday for pot day?
I agree. Pierce was a great character, Alda is a tool. And I love the quote above. It is total nonsense, but it makes so much sense in some strange way.
Alda is one of the best practitioners of the English language (American edition) of the 20th c. What makes the quote so brilliant is that it plays on the ambiguities the English language has about time. Our language is really rooted in the here-and-now compared to other languages, so it's very easy to condense things that span a length of time into a verbal moment. The inconsistency makes for great "wait, what did he say?" type of humor. I suspect that a joke like that simply cannot be related in some other languages.
BTW, thanks for clearing that up about Adolf. ;-)
No problem on the Adlophies. I wouldn't want any liberals who happened by thinking that we were endorsing Hilterism or dope smoking. I just think it's worth pointing out that our dope smoking friends chose their day poorly... because you know they would point it out if we held International Conservatism Day today.
So think about that as you take a hitler on your Adolphies my dope smoking friends.
Oh, and Dave's not here.
You're probably right about out language. I doubt this joke would work in German precisely because the two concept of what would be and what will happen require different explanations that would sever the humorous part of the joke. I mean, you can translate it simply enough, but I don't think the ironic meaning would come across all that well... it would just sound stupid rather than clever.
Speaking of language, something I noticed listening to NPR yesterday. Let me preface by reminding everyone that the left routinely admonishes against "dehumanizing" the "other" in any dialogue. Not bad advice, really, so long as one attempts to follow it. Which brings me to the funny part:
The conversation was about gun control and how the president's measure went down in flames in the Senate of all places. NPR was aghast. How did this happen? Well, to hear them tell it, there was no human opposition to the gun control measures. No. It all came from a singular mysterious entity known only as The Ehn Array. Oh sure, they talked about The Ehn Array's members, but in much the same way one would speak of arms and legs as members of the body. I though, how classic!
tryanmax, I as sort of mentioned to T-Rav above, I no longer give any credence to the moralistic arguments made by the left because I've come to realize they are just for show and aren't meant to be taken as genuine positions. Essentially, they argue "___ is evil" when they accuse you of racism, but they ignore their own ____.
In effect, the left has become a group who divide the world into good/bad on some basis they won't tell you about, and those are the only values that really matter to them. Any other pretense of values is just that -- a pretense, to be used to attack "the bad" and shield "the good". There's no actual logic or consistency... their words are meaningless.
Oh, I missed the feedback-loop comment. Great observation. I'm going to use that. Thanks for drawing my attention to it.
T-Rav, I'll tell you what's evil: THIS is evil. Or hilarious. The internet is awesome.
tryanmax, This is evil: Baby Hitler
I think the feedback loop is kind of interesting actually. I wonder what the human blue screen of death will look like?
"There are corresponding cases on the Muslim side, but you have to look REALLY hard to find them."
There is a reason for their rarity. They don't get any support. The only people I've seen trumpeting people like, say, M. Zuhdi Jasser and his American Islamic Forum for Democracy are Dennis Prager and Andrew McCarthy. And the Muslim groups that do get political support from the government, like CAIR, are pretty much radicals in disguise.
Also, the revealing of CAIR as a "radicals in disguise" agency turned many conservatives to the idea that Islam as a whole is an inherent evil. So you have a lot of them coming in line w/ Robert Spencer and his JihadWatch which, while doing a good job tracking Islamist crimes, also preaches the idea that Islam is utterly unreformable and inherently evil.
Now, take that message, preached and followed by a number of conservatives, put it on the right next to the left's message that Muslims are oppressed by EEEVIL America and Israel and that America is xenophobic and hates people who are not white ensures that many Muslims, particularly young Muslims (hint, hint), will think that the left is right and, as a result, feel utterly unwelcome in the United States and therefore have difficulty assimilating.
And, since people need to be in a group or community, when they can't assimilate into American society they are going to find a group they can find welcoming...
So, in short, we share some of the blame as well.
Oh, and people who say Islam is unreformable?
When Constantine converted the Roman Empire to Christianity. Rape became a punishable offense -for the victim.
Let's not forget the house of evil!
https://www.google.com/search?q=hitler+house+swansea&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&client=safari#biv=i%7C0%3Bd%7CcQQH2bIDosFnHM%3A
Bev, LOL! Yep. Clearly, there is much evil in the world!
Kit, The Muslim problem is something we do share part of the blame for in a sense.
1. The British never should have formed them into countries... leave them as meaningless tribes.
2. We should not have helped their dictators. AND we should never have let them use us as a scapegoat.
3. The ones who come here (or Europe) should have been told up front, you can keep your religion, but not your practices. Civil law trumps religious belief and you can't oppress your women, you can't honor kill, you can't rape, you can't torture animals or any of the other sick crap their putrid little book tells them to do.
Those three things brought us into their infighting. We should not have done those.
As for the blame itself, it lies squarely on the head of a so-called religion that is about barbarism and hate. There's no other way to say it. Any religion that says that the goodness of your misconduct depends on who you do it is not worthy of the slightest hint of respect. It is a prejudice hiding as philosophy, like Nazism. And it lies firmly on the believers who are so sick in the head that they don't see the vileness of their own beliefs.
That's about the nicest thing I can say about their "religion."
Also, if you are a Muslim like Zuhdi Jasser, why would you speak out frankly against terror. If you do, you tend to get 3 responses.
1). Condemnation from fellow Muslims and the leftist community.
Fromt the right you get
2). Dismissal for being at best naive and, at worst, a liar.
A few people like Dennis Prager might help you out a bit.
Kit, You speak out because it's the right thing to do.
Kit, All the great people of history who brought genuine, decent change did what they did because they had the conviction that they saw something wrong and they stood up for what it right. They didn't care that left or right or their fellows wouldn't support them. They did it because it was right and they believed that good people would follow them.
I don't see a Martin Luther, a Martin Luther King, a Gandhi or a Walesa in the Muslim world.
And he does. And gets largely ignored. Yes, he gets some TV-time but nothing like CAIR and the rest do.
Islamists like CAIR condemn him because he hurts their message of victimization.
Liberals ignore him because (1) condemning him would put them on the side of the Islamists and (2) supporting him would help conservatives.
Conservatives ignore/dismiss him because, well, I have no idea. Maybe a distrust of Muslims due to CAIR.
In short, its kind of like what you have w/ the Black community right now. Activists to eager to peddle the sweet poison of victimization and a liberal media too cowardly to confront the issue.
And Conservatives messing up in trying to handle it.
The lack of assimilation into mainstream America leads to problems. Among blacks it leads to gang violence and among Muslims it leads to terrorism.
Oh, and why Conservatives are morons: If we are going to go anti-Muslim, why don't we at least try to use it to win the Hindus? ;)
Why do I get the sense I'm being baited to jump into a "what's wrong with conservatism" discussion?
Look, in truth, I agree. Conservatives have made a real mess of the issue. We alienate Muslims and drive them into the arms of liberals and we don't think strategically to try to win over the other groups who have suffered from their dealings with Muslims -- like most Indians (Hindus, Buddhists). I can tell you that the Indians I know HATE Muslims with a passion and with very good reason.
BUT... I'm not going to excuse Islam. Islam is a sickness, not a philosophy, and while it could perhaps be corrected, its adherents don't seem the least bit interested in fixing it.
tryanmax -
Re: "The Ehn Array"
Wasn't there a Star Trek episode about that? :-D
Scott, if there wasn't, there shoulda been.
"Why do I get the sense I'm being baited to jump into a "what's wrong with conservatism" discussion? "
:)
"I can tell you that the Indians I know HATE Muslims with a passion and with very good reason."
Agreed. Call a Hindu a Muslim and you will understand that. As a bonus, while you are in traction, you will get to experience healthcare under Obama.
;)
"Islam is a sickness, not a philosophy, and while it could perhaps be corrected, its adherents don't seem the least bit interested in fixing it."
I think it could be fixed, or at least moderated to a degree where its no longer as dangerous.
It ain't about finding a perfect, unflawed solution but about finding the best and most workable solution.
Kit, It can be fixed, but for that to happen, three things need to happen:
1. It needs to be decoupled from "political power." So long as Islam is seen as a viable alternative to shitty government, it will remain more ideology than religion. I think the Muslim Brotherhood taking over (and failing) in places like Egypt will do that. They will de-radicalize it because it will lose its appeal as a political force and it will retreat to just being a religion.
2. Average, Western Muslims need to speak out for change. They need to swear off the asshole parts of the "religion" and basically redefine it without the hate and in such a way that it embraces the modern world. They need to repudiate the radicals and ostracize them.
3. We need to cut the flow of money to people like the Saudis who are using their money to spread the most radical version of this idiocy to every part of the world.
Scott, Is this the En Array of which you speak: Lobbyist One
or is this: Lobbyist Two
Andrew -
Is it sad that I had the second image in mind when I made that joke? :-)
(To be fair, it is a well-designed model!)
Honestly, I find discussing cats that look like Hitler far more interesting/disturbing than the nature of Islam. Or at least, one's going to cause fewer tensions than the other. (Actually, they might both cause the same amount of tension, now that I think about it....)
LOL! So apparently somebody fired some shots at the pot rally in Denver and everybody fled... very slowly... and stopped to get some munchies.
This week has gotten me to thinking about two books I read long ago, STAND ON ZANZIBAR and THE LITTLE DRUMMER GIRL. Both books accurately predicted the rise of "hobby terrorism". The terror isn't done for any particular political or ideological reasons; to paraphrase LDG, "They just want to screw and blow things up." These two young men don't strike me as being super ideological, something doesn't seem to be in place to make them like the ones on the airplanes or in Kabul. I think it was some sort of weird game that they didn't understand the final consequences of. I'm not defending them by the way, just an observation. Thsi is the Leopold and Loeb type evil,,,just something to do to pass the time.
Critch: "just want to watch the world burn"?
OMG! Listening to NPR; so much hand-wringing over the "racist" response to the Boston bombing. My observations:
1. The only "racist" response they can lament is online. i.e. People are venting but no one is lynching ethnic Chechens.
2. What they are calling "racist" is, by their own admission, not directed at the terrorists' race, but their ideology/religion.
3. Again, by the hosts' admission, most of what they have seen is directed specifically at the terrorists and not Muslims or Chechens as a whole.
I'm sure there is plenty of offensive and misdirected talk online. I say, let people vent if they aren't acting on it. Just like we can't go after Jihadis for merely preaching "Death to America."
But what these dips over at NPR are troubled about is that people would lob ethnic and religious slurs at a pair of @$$holes who blew up innocent people including children when a verbal lashing is the least of which the jerks deserve.
*facepalm!*
go figure people are mad about this bombing and are blaming the ideology that created the little s%!ts that set the bomb. they deserve your palm against their faces...
Post a Comment