I tried to watch the election debate, but I didn't last long. I kept turning the tv on and off. If anyone watched to the end, please let us know your thoughts and/or impressions. I know that Tryanmax watched it 'cause the best I could do was to follow the twitter-verse version. Tryanmax is a champ!
Tryanmax created a fitting poster for the occasion...
Here is an Op/Ed piece from The Federalist by Greg Sorreil and it's worth a read. It might be a little over-dramatic, but he makes some good points about how we have come to a place where we are losing the one thing that makes our country unique - our ability to agree to disagree. Tell me what you think - No Matter Who Wins The Election, We All Lose
Tryanmax created a fitting poster for the occasion...
And it's not "lame"!This is lame, but I only thought of doing it an hour ago. Maybe I'll do a better one for next time. #PresidentialDebate pic.twitter.com/hNeYcW50g7
— tryanmax (@tryanmax) September 27, 2016
Here is an Op/Ed piece from The Federalist by Greg Sorreil and it's worth a read. It might be a little over-dramatic, but he makes some good points about how we have come to a place where we are losing the one thing that makes our country unique - our ability to agree to disagree. Tell me what you think - No Matter Who Wins The Election, We All Lose
20 comments:
Bev, I moved up the publication of your article so people could talk about the debate here.
Haven't seen the debate, but I'll tell you what's interesting.
1. I see no articles saying that Hillary blew Trump away. She's the professional... the greatest debater ever. Trump is the insane, dangerous, unqualified baboon. Yet, she didn't win. Interesting.
2. The usual suspects on the left did the usual thing. They must all have macros. They are accusing him or racism, demanding investigations of the Russia garbage, and calling Trump dangerous and unqualified. The problem is, they say the same thing about every other Republican, so I don't think anyone care anymore. It's become obviously pro forma.
3. I'm seeing a lot of talk about the moderators helping Clinton. That's not good for Clinton. That reinforces the idea that she's a poor candidate who is being helped up by a biased establishment.
Finally, to Critch and Bev, from earlier, I have seen ZERO Hillary signs or bumper stickers in Colorado. Even in very Democratic Denver, I saw nothing. I don't see a lot of Trump stuff either, but the total absence of Hillary stuff is rather interesting to me.
Well, that was an endurance test! Not that anybody cares, but here's my quick take.
The Hillary supporters will see a clear Hillary win. The Trump supporters will see a clear Trump win. The alleged undecideds will use this as an excuse to declare their allegiances. That last, very predictable observation is the most that will come out of this particular debate. All in all, the biggest surprise was Trump's generally staid performance.
That said, by my scorecard, Hillary left most if not all of her best ammunition on the floor, while Trump seemed to hold back. There are two more debates, plus a VP debate. Team Clinton has to either move to weaker attacks or risk souding like a broken reacord.
Trump, on the other hand, ended the debate admitting he had been holding back. From most anyone else, that would be a hollow expression indicating frustration at one's own poor performance. From Trump, given his history, it's a warning.
Some notes: I'm sure much hay will be made over who interrupted who and how often. Team Hillary will whine that Trump talked over her like a man! This reinforces the idea that Hillary is not a forceful presence. Team Trump will complain that moderator Holt interrupted Trump more than Hillary, which fuels the biased media narrative Trump has played up.
Lester Holt did, in my opinion, a good job. Not many people can put Trump in his place, so I don't count the fact that he couldn't either against him. Generally, I think he was slightly tougher on Trump, but not by much. This won't protect him from the Matt Lauer treatment.
Miscellaneous: Lester Holt could've won my ugly tie contest for wearing something my grandpa might favor, but he was outdone by Hillary's power-red pantsuit which, while not a tie or even including a tie, was damaging to my retinas nonetheless.
Which leads me to the somewhat confusing decision by both candidates to wear a color associated with their opposition. Trump is known for his red power ties, but went for the softer blue. Clinton has been seen in virtually every color of pantsuit but red before tonight. I think this is very basic color psychology at play. Blue is trustworthy, honest, and loyal--things Trump needs to reinforce on the subconscious level. Red is powerful, motivating, alluring and aggressive--Hillary was trying to elevate her presence. A touch of red is genreally fine, but Hillary's all-red wardrobe may have been overboard. Psychologically, too much red can stir anger or make people feel threatened. Add the fact that Hillary has little to no sexual allure, and those become the almost guaranteed responses.
I'll have to wait for the stopwatch holders to report, but I assume Trump won the talking time race. Generally, that's a good thing for any candidate. I will say, he nailed the split screen game. When Hillary was speaking, he appeared engaged and reacted through facial expressions at key moments without mugging. Hillary, conversely, had two listening modes: 1) staring blankly into the sky and 2) smug smirking.
Vocally, they played opposite games, and I'd say Trump made that happen. Trump started high, seeming cranky and agitated, while Hillary started soft and calm. By the end of the debate, they had traded places, with Trump expressing the calm demeanor and Hillary slipping into shrill mode. This tells me that Trump was pretending to be irritated, because people don't generally become less worked up over the course of a confrontation, whereas Hillary probably legitimately lost her cool.
What to expect from the next debate: It's a town-hall style debate, so don't look for too much head-to-head confrontation. Trump will work the crowd and possibly try to spin up his performance from tonight. Hillary is not as skilled with crowds as Trump, look for some obvious discomfort.
The Trump label of the day: no stamina.
He has been very good in labeling people. Now every time Hillary looks tired people will think she does look old. Maybe show won't live very long. Or to prevent that label she will overwork herself.
His retort on experience was also good. Yeah, she has a lot of experience-all of it bad.
Koshcat: good call on stamina. I think you're right
He really said, "All of it bad"? That's fantastic. Beautifully done.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts, tryanmax. And thanks for watching. You're a brave man.
I just couldn't watch it, but thanks to Tryanmax, I "listened" through him. The split-screen was not Hillary's friend from what I watched. She kept that smug smile on all night. I turned it off when she started yammering on about how Trump doesn't pay any taxes and never has...how would she know that? For the record, I DO NOT CARE ABOUT TRUMP'S TAXES!! I am certain that if he has been audited for the last 15 years as he says he has, HE HAS PAID HIS TAXES!
But I do care about is National Security Breaches and using foreign donations, the FBI, DOJ, & WH as her own personal "get out of jail free" card for all of her cronies.
I've taken a look around and the usual suspects are remarkably subdued today. That suggests Hillary lost.
The polls say Clinton won, but then they always do. I don't remember a Republican ever "winning" a debate, including Reagan. What I found more interesting is that the respondents in the early polls were about 16% biased toward Clinton compared to the general population.
That suggests to me that the Trump people have already decided and the debates don't interest them, whereas the Hillary people see this as more important. I wouldn't be surprised if Trump now moves ahead of Clinton in the polls.
OT: It's now come out that the guy who got shot in Charlotte was carrying a stolen gun and his wife filed a restraining order against him last year where she said he threatened to kill her and the kids with a gun.
I think it's amazing that these leftist sh*ts are making fun of Trump for sniffling, but then whine like spanked children when someone makes fun of anyone else's physical traits. Hypocrites.
That suggests to me that the Trump people have already decided and the debates don't interest them...
It strikes me, too, that Trump voters are more locked in at this point. Clinton voters may even be looking for a reason to bail. She didn't give them one last night, but then, Trump didn't give them any reason not to.
RCP has moved MN from "leans Clinton" into the toss-up column on the electoral college map. On their "no toss ups" map, they have CO going for Trump.
General polling overnight shows virtually no change for either candidate following the debate.
Just a show of hands - Who is suffering from Traumatic Election Syndrome?
Bev,
I am.
There was a lot of talk that Trump wasn't polished and he wasn't. However, I think it will appeal to a lot of people because what he says feels more real; more from the heart. I don't know if it is real but, in elections, perception is reality. As a more libertarian bent person, his statements last night appealed to me. I never thought of Trump as having those leanings.
Everyone should be against me because I have usually been wrong, but I think we just experienced Hillary's peak last night. I suspect she won't have the stamina to keep it up for the next 2 debates. Trump was holding back. Not even breaking a sweat.
My prediction: Either Hillary or Trump will win the election.
Koshcat, Hillary's weakness since 2007 and before has been her hubris. I am of the opinion that very little of what Trump does is unplanned* so, with that mindset, I think Trump intentionally played into Hillary's hubris Monday night.
*By "unplanned" I don't mean Trump isn't spontaneous. I mean that he doesn't do anything without an idea of where he's going. Electoral politics is a slippery road, though, so that means he sometimes needs to steer right to go left, and if things start to veer off-course, he needs to steer into the skid. In other words, it seems counter-intuitive, like he should have driven straight into the wall, but it's not luck.
"We must believe in luck. For how else can we explain the success of those we don't like." --Jean Cocteau
Now that we're at the end of the week, I think it's safe to say the polls reflect people's reactions to the debate. Strictly speaking, Hillary did win, with a 0.7 point post-debate bump compared to Trump's 0.1. (RCP average) I see the two most pertinent takeaways as:
1) "Losing" didn't hurt Trump one scintilla.
2) "Winning" didn't help Hillary to any worthwhile degree.
Interestingly, this week has been one of the least volatile for both campaigns all season. Trump got a bump just before the debate and Clinton got one just after and both have held flat since. To me this indicates that the alleged undecideds are waiting to see how the rest of the debates go.
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