In all seriousness, Sesame Street is introducing the first Muppet with a father in prison, and quite a few people are upset. Sesame Street claims that 1 in 28 kids has a parent who is in jail and they want to offer those kids some support (I suspect the number is closer to 1 in 172). Some people are bothered by the idea of introducing the concept of jail to Muppet-land, because they think it will ruin childhood. I don’t buy that. Kids know what jail is because they see it on other cartoons, on other television shows, and their parents threaten them with it - "This will go on your permanent record and you'll end up in jail when you grow up!" And it’s not like they’re glamorizing it by having Alex be happy about it... this is not Muppetfellas.
Others are upset that they are being one-sided and aren’t telling the kids why Alex’s dad is in the joint. I don’t have a problem with that either. The point here is to sympathize with the kids whose parents are in jail, not to justify the sentence imposed on the father. Indeed, all that really does is make the child accountable for the sins of the father, which is kind of crappy.
On the other hand, I doubt this will help much of anything, as Sesame Street seems to hope. For one thing, it’s not like the show is telling anyone anything they don’t already know: gee, a child with a missing parent is a sad child--
uh...
Wait a minute! Doesn’t that conflict with the idea that single parent families are cool? Isn't this going to cause an entire generation of kids to grow up believing that it’s depressing and difficult not to have a father? Snort. Once again, it looks like politically correct liberals are contradicting their own messages by adding new, poorly thought out messages to prior poorly thought out messages and thereby creating a big old steaming pile of conflict. Liberals really are their own worst enemies, aren’t they?
In any event, the real story here is that, apparently, Muppets can be dangerous criminals. Bring a Muppet into your home at your own risk!
105 comments:
BTW, No sooner does this happen than the New Yorker tries to out Bert and Ernie (something that I thought happened in the 1990s) AND Captain Crunch is forced to defend his rank because he doesn't have enough stripes on his sleeve to be a captain... some are claiming he's only a commander. What a sad week. :(
Also, don't forget, I still need reviews!
Greatest... Book... Ever...
I believe the Sesame Street show is particularly valued in the black inner city community - where the male incarceration rate is much higher than the rest of the country - which may explain the figures.
Cynical as I am, I'm more inclined to believe that this is less a means for making SS relevant to the general community than to make it easier to tar any PBS defunding efforts as racist.
K, I think Sesame Street has been quite open for some time about their core audience being inner-city minorities. And if you think about it, they really don't address suburban middle class values at all.
In truth, none of this bothers me. It's a fact of life that some people are locked up and if the show's real goal is to provide some comfort to kids whose parents are in that situation, then I'm fine with that -- so long as they don't go on rants about how everyone is wrongfully accused. I just think it's funny that PC messages continue to conflict so dramatically.
In terms of funding, you could be right, but I suspect the real reason they are doing this is just that the issue hit their radar screen for some reason. They probably hired somebody who mentioned it.
I personally prefer The Godmuppet to Muppetfellas. (Shouldn't it be Goodmuppets?) My favorite line:
"Leave gun. Take coooo-kieee."
On a lighter note: Disney honors their greatest Mouseketeer
Thanks to Netflix, they have Sesame Street going back to when I was kid watching it(that's pretty much when it started). So out of a bit of nostalgia I went back and watched a few.
Sure some sequences were very creative and interesting(I would expect no less from Jim Henson). One thing was very clear, it was all about the inner-city from the beginning. They had a sequence about if it's really cold kids, move around to warm up. Why not find shelter? No kid, do the lib thing and suffer. Like kids growing up in Phoenix Az. could relate to kids from New York.
"Daddy's in the clink."
"What did Daddy do?"
"Daddy killed some crackers, he didn't mean it, he is very sorry."
tryanmax, You know, I'd like to see that film. I'd love to see their version of Layla. LOL!
K, I actually knew her best from Elvis films.
Max, I never really related to Sesame Street and I grew up in the ghetto for my first 9 years. Something about the show just never resonated with me. And now I understand why... it was never talking to me, it was talking to inner-city New Yorkers.
As an aside, daddy was framed by the crackers. No one in jail deserves to be there unless they're in for white collar crime.
Jail? This is so 1970s. Did you know nowadays one in 7 kids have a parent whose job is complete and utter bullshit? They should have a character whose mother is Vice President for Diversity, Gender Justice and Community Outreach at the local fire department. "You mean your mom is a firefighter?" "I don´t think so. They haven´t fought fires since 2009."
Meanwhile the father works for the NSA. Wholesome message: "Don´t even try to lie to him."
El Gordo, LOLOLOLOLOL! "Did you know nowadays one in 7 kids have a parent whose job is complete and utter bullshit?
I would LOVE to see a study reach a conclusion like that! :D
You know, this whole jail thing does reek of the 1970s, doesn't it? Crime hasn't been a big social issue for 30-40 years. I guess it's nostalgia week at Sesame Street. Maybe they'll protest Vietnam soon?
I actually knew her best from Elvis films.
Elvis who?
Andrew,
Generally speaking, when I think public broadcasting I don't think inner city minorities :). I spent my youngest years on two different Air Force bases (mostly white) and all the kids watched Sesame Street.
That and Mr. Roger's Neighborhood were great shows (never cared for Captain Kangaroo) but given my experience working with troubled kids, I strongly suspect unsupervised kids were not watching age-appropriate content, but 'watching up'.
My daughters never cared for Sesame Street, though they were big fans of Dora the Explorer (who teaches Spanish in the US and English in Latin America).
Sesame Street has always been about education and teaching kids how to deal with stuff so the 'imprisoned father' character doesn't surprise me nor does the hyperventilating of some American conservatives (who cried themselves to sleep when an HIV positive little girl was introduced in the South African version of Sesame Street).
Also, its worth bearing in mind that while crime hasn't been a big concern since the 1970's the rate of incarceration is quite a bit higher than it was back then (though its been declining in recent years due to falling crime). A high rate of incarceration is a wonderful thing (makes for less crime victims) but it does have costs.
K, Yeah, that's not who I meant, sorry. I meant the other guy in the Beach films.
Anthony, PBS, no, but Sesame Street yes. My understanding is that it was always aimed at urban youths, though I don't know who actually made up the audience. I would suspect suburban kids did.
In any event, I too enjoyed Mr. Rogers. I liked Captain Kangaroo too.
Yeah, I remember the HIV thing.
What a minute! Dora the Explorer teaches Mexican in the US and English in Mexico America?!! Do you not understand what that means?!! It's Rubio "Judas" Soros!!! They're teaching those dirty foreigners English so they will want to sneak across the border here and they're brainwashing our kids so they don't resist the invasion! Is there no level of evil to which Judasio won't stoop!!!
LOL! Someone should pass that on to Sarah Palin. I'll let her run with it free of charge.
BTW, We don't have a Commentarama Junior Rangers program or anything, but I'm nominating Kit for an award if we ever do.
In fact, let me toss a couple kudos to Kit for doing his best to try to bring rational debate to some folks who have kind of lost their minds, and for doing so in good faith and good humor. Well done, Kit! :D
Anybody remember Zoobilee Zoo? I'm pretty sure the entire furry movement can be traced back to that show.
I do not recall that show, thankfully! LOL!
"who cried themselves to sleep when an HIV positive little girl was introduced in the South African version of Sesame Street"
Yeah, horrible they should introduce an HIV-Positive character in a country where 1 out of every 10 people have HIV/AIDS.
Personally, I think the Sesame street character should've turned to the camera and said this: "Children, taking a shower after sexual intercourse will not prevent you from getting AIDS or HIV*. Also, boys, if you ever contract HIV/AIDS, having sex with a virgin will not cure you of it.**"
*The President of South Africa actually believes this.
**Quite prevalent in South Africa. This is one reason for its high number of child rapes.
Kit, All true. But details like that don't matter to people who are on a role. There was a lot of "the end is nigh" going on at the time.
So Kit, now acceptance speech on the award? :P
Captain Kangaroo was before my time.
"My daughters never cared for Sesame Street, though they were big fans of Dora the Explorer (who teaches Spanish in the US and English in Latin America)."
I did not know that. Of course, when I think of Dora nowadays my mind goes to the College Humor parody: LINK
2min 17sec
Also, re the HIV/AIDS character. I remember when it happened. In fact, I remember it being discussed on The O'Reilly Factor and thinking that the Sesame Street folks have a point about the HIV/AIDS rates.
I would've been about 13 at the time...
Two things.
1) Why, oh why, does everyone, especially everyone in the media, keep insisting Bert and Ernie are gay? Do two guys have to be gay in order to live together or something? I watched Sesame Street for quite a while, and I never saw one of them make a pass at the other. God, and they say conservatives are obsessed about the bedroom....
2) I don't really care that much about this new character's backstory; as with the AIDS character in the South African version, there's arguments to be made either way. However, just because this is reality for a lot of kids watching, doesn't mean they have to be reminded of it. Kids are often more aware than we realize; they're hardly in the dark about crime and disease and so on. It might not be a bad idea to give them an hour of TV viewing where they can forget about these problems and just learn their letters and numbers and sing along with Elmo. Just my perspective.
Maybe I was better versed in pop culture than the average child, but even when I was little I knew that Bert and Ernie were a riff on The Odd Couple.
T-Rav, I find the Bert and Ernie being gay thing annoying actually. When I grew up, people could still have friends of the same sex, even roommates, without people thinking they are gay. I find it rather obnoxious that at a time when we're supposed to be accepting gays, everyone has become so obsessed with trying to identify people as gay.
Besides, we all know that Bert is too busy being evil to be gay: Bert Is Evil
Oh sure, the next thing you'll be telling us is that The Flintstones are a take off on The Honeymooners! Yeah, right.
Woo hoo! Sarah Palin is floating the idea of leaving the Republican Party to form something called "The Freedom Party" with Mark Levin: LINK
I am SOOOO in favor of this. Please go! Please, please, please go! You will be so so much happier in your own party. Seriously, go. I'll even pay your moving expenses!
tryanmax -
Anybody remember Zoobilee Zoo? I'm pretty sure the entire furry movement can be traced back to that show.
I remember it. Even as a kid, I thought to myself, "What the hell is this?!" :-)
Scott, So are you telling us you're a furry?
Andrew -
Whenever people ask me why I'm not as gung-ho about working in the film biz as I used to be, I give you exhibits A through D:
A
B
C
D
>:-(
Andrew -
Quite the opposite! (First you question my American-ness, now you're wondering if I'm a furry? All in the same week!?)
:-D
Scott, It's been an odd week, what with the outrageous allegations against Captain Crunch and all. ;P
As for exhibits A-D, yeah... sucks, doesn't it?
Andrew, What do you think the odds are of Palin actually leaving to another party? And in all seriousness, do you think that would be good for us Republicans?
Scott, What is the opposite of a furry? A furry hunter? Dare we ask what's hanging on the walls of your house? :D
Ellen, Sadly, 0.0% chance. Palin is a fraud. She's the Lindsay Lohan of politics and she stays relevant by being obnoxious. This is her latest cry for relevancy. Leaving the Republican Party would be like Keith Olberman going to Current TV. She just wants your attention... and she doesn't care how much damage she does to conservatism getting it.
That said, if she did leave, that would be fantastic for the Republicans. For one thing, it would instantly remove a cadre of disloyal opportunists who have been savaging the party and its members for five years now. For another, it would let the Republicans redefine themselves as "not those freaks." That would go a long way toward restoring the party credibility.
In fact, one of the real problems the party has right now are not Republicans but people who became Republicans after 2008. Many of the most vehement "genuine conservative" bloggers are like this. They are people who have never supported the Republicans until Obama came along. Then they shifted over and brought a bunch of whacko crap with them. And since that moment, not a week has gone by where they haven't screamed that the party has let them down and how "maybe it's time to abandon the party," as if they ever supported it.
ellenB -
Given that I live at my parents' house, mostly photos of the family!
And as for my bedroom, since this is a temporary situation (I'm 30 and had to move back in), I've resisted the urge to decorate. I don't want anything that hints at permanence of any kind. (And, I'm sure, neither do my parents!) :-)
Andrew -
Yes, it does suck.
To be fair, I read a possible synopsis for the Terminator flick that sounded kinda interesting.
And I'm NOT looking forward to the wasted bandwidth spent by Big Hollywood bitching about the Captain Planet movie. :-)
Scott, You should start painting a fresco of yourself on your wall -- just a couple inches a day. ;P
On Terminator, I'm not sure Hollywood can do interesting anymore. I guess we'll see. I've got a couple things DVR'd right now and NO desire to see them -- like Total Recall.
I've stopped visiting BH.
Andrew -
I know. I've stopped, too. (And I wonder how I have all this free time!)
If you want an idea of what my bedroom could look like, here are two photos from my apartment in Orlando 5 years ago.
No doubt exactly what you were expecting!
Photo 1 and Photo 2
Scott, I was expecting a bit more of this: LINK
If only!
I don't want to derail the conversations already in progress...
...all I'll say is that, if I had the money, I would've moved into this loft in NYC.
My favorite design motifs are right there in the title!
That's actually pretty cool.
2 Reasons Sarah Palin should leave the GOP and form the Freedom Party.
-In 2016 we will not have to deal with her playing coy about running for GOP presidential nomination. Yeah, she probably wouldn't have gotten it in 2012 but the fact that her entering the race would've completely overshadowed all but 2 or 3 candidates (Romney, Gingrich) probably kept some qualified people, who may not have won but would have added to the debate, from entering the race.
-In 2014 she won't be making last minute endorsements of unqualified GOP Senate primary candidates resulting in the candidate sweeping the nomination before the primary-voting public has had a chance to properly vet him/her.
I concur. Also:
3. She's a moron who spews moronic things, which then get attached to our party. Shipping her off would end that association.
4. Shipping her off would expose how little actual support there is for her views. That would wake up some people (like Boehner) that he doesn't need to kowtow to this angry fringe against the interests of the party, the country, and the majority of the party members.
A few things...
tryanmax, Scott...I, too remember 'Zoobilee Zoo.' It was part of the morning viewing with 'Danger Mouse,' 'Inspector Gadget' 'Transformers,' and 'He'Man.'
And Scott, that loft looks like a restaurant/bar in a summer town somewhere between Maryland the Outer Banks. In other words, it's beautiful.
-Rustbelt
I don't know Danger Mouse, but I know and like the others very much.
And Andrew...CURSE YOU! Now that you've brought out the idea of the 'MuppetFellas,' my imagination's on overdrive and I can't get any of this out of my head...
Dr. Teeth (on commercial): So order Dr. Teeth's dentures! They don't come off when you eat like other dentures!
(at the store, Kermit punches Dr. Teeth)
Kermit: "Where's the Gonz's money? You made that stupid commercial, now where's the money?!"
Gonzo (in leather jacket): "What do you think I am? That I'm a freakin', weird-lookin' bank? Where's the money? (phone rings) I'll get it.
Kermit: "Where is the money. Let me tell you something...it's not easeeeeeee...being DEAD!"
Gonzo: "Fonzie, it's for you. Something at home."
Fonzie: (takes phone) "Okay, okay. I'll be there. Be back later, guys."
(Fonzie leaves, Kermit continues pistol-whipping Dr. Teeth)
=====
(Kermit and Fonzie sit in the car)
Fonzie: Come on, what were thinking?
Kermit: 'Bout what?
Fonzie: Whacking Zoot like that. I mean, what were you thinking?
Kermit: It was business. If he thought he was getting his reed shop back anytime soon after getting out, he was nuts. Besides, he sucked on the sax.
Fonzie: That's not what I meant.
Kermit: Then what do you mean?
Fonzie: I mean, he was connected. He's a made Muppet. You don't whack made Muppets. I've heard Jon Animalotti's lookin' for you. They were pals.
Kermit: What's he gonna do? Take over the Waldorf Family and whack the he day I'm supposed to get made with his drumsticks? I'd like to see that happen.
(awkward silence)
Kermit: Did I tell you I've been seein' this hog?
Fonzie: Good lookin'?
Kermit: Bovine.
Fonzie: Ah, geez...
Kemrit: Tell me about it. She eats like a pig. I mean, does she assume that because I'm green that I'm made of money? You should've seen Beaker's face when he brought the bill. And you what else? She won't go out with me again. She says I'm cheap and that I'll give her warts. Threatened to karate-chop if I ever came by her house again.
Fonzie: Ah, that sucks.
Kemrit: Yeah, she uses me and then calls me a sucker. Freakin' porker's prejudiced against amphibians!
===
(Kermit and Gonzo walk around, preparing to play bocce ball behind the lounge where Dr. Teeth was buried in multiple suitcases)
Gonzo: (staring at the ground) Hey, Teeth! Hey ya doin'?
-Rustbelt
Rustbelt, I have to say that I love the idea of them really doing Muppetfellas. That would so totally be worth seeing -- much better than the garbage Jason Segel came up with.
"I had to deliver the fish to Gonzo, get Piggy ready for her trip to Pittsburgh and get back to stir the sauce. The whole time, there's these two old guys in a helicopter flying overhead watching me."
Scott - That loft looks pretty neat all right. It would be a little overwhelming for me to live in, but the pictures are quite nice to look at!
I don't have much of an opinion on the Sesame Street thing, though I do find the contradiction amusing since you pointed it out Andrew. I did watch it when I was a little kid, but I don't remember much about it other than a general sense of the characters, enjoying the Cookie Monster and the Count, and also enjoying cupcakes with candy and cookies made to look like Big Bird, the Cookie Monster, and Oscar at the grocery store.
As far as the other shows go I Zoobiliee Zoo sounds familiar, though I don't remember if I watched it or not. I did watch and love Danger Mouse, Transformers, He Man, and Inspector Gadget, though! I think I even named a hamster I had as a kid after Pinfold from Danger Mouse.
- Daniel
Daniel, I'm feeling left out now that I'm the only one who hasn't seen Danger Mouse!
On Sesame Street, the contradiction was really what I thought was kind of funny. It doesn't bother me if they do this or not with the jail thing. I see why they're doing it and I guess it's not a bad idea, it just doesn't sound like it will do anything. But it is funny that their messages keep tripping over each other.
One of these days, Andrew, one of these days...
That's one of my favorite Pink Floyd songs! :D
Andrew - It was an entertaining little show that I watched on Nickelodeon in the late 80s-early 90s or so when I was a kid. It was a British cartoon that parodied their spy shows with the protagonist being an eyepatch-wearing white mouse who was a mix of superhero and secret agent. It's been so long I don't remember any of the plots but I remember liking the opening theme and the action. I'm not sure where one might watch it now, but it was a lot of fun back in the day! =)
- Daniel
You'll never be a Democrat Andrew. If you can't take Palin you wouldn't be able to take the far wider bandwidth of the Democratic party constituencies - all united by the love of government money.
Captain Planet
K, I could never be a Democrat because my brain functions. Plus, frankly, I detest most of them.
But Palin is no conservative and I don't like that moron opportunist besmirching my ideology by claiming to represent it as she gets rich tearing it apart. I'd to see her leave and form her own party. They should call themselves the "Reel U'merikan Party" (RUMP) and they can spend their time excommunicating each other of "lack of reelness."
Daniel, I missed it somehow. I do recall Pinky and the Brain, but not Danger Mouse.
The RUMP Party...somehow I feel that instead of repelling people, that name could actually backfire on us and cause a spike in the group's membership- well, briefly, until they found out it REALLY wasn't what they were expecting. It all sounds like a big con and...
Wait a minute...Andrew, Scott, K, Daniel...are any of you pondering what I'm pondering?
While I wait for an answer, I'll just post Part 2 of my 'Countdown' series.
-Rustbelt
I'm not sure how I caught it myself, but I liked Pinky and the Brain a lot as well. They were always my favorite part of Animaniacs, though I was largely out of cartoons by the time they got their own show. And as far as favorite childhood shows go, as a kid it was really, really hard to beat the old Ninja Turtles cartoon. Happily wearing a Ninja Turtles shirt and working with Ninja Turtles pencils in kindergarten, collecting both American and German action figured (my now-former stepfather was in the military and stationed in Germany back then), seeing the movies in the theater, and being ecstatic when I found play shells, weapons, and mask packages in a German Woolworth's are all big NT-related childhood memories of mine! April was my first fictional female crush, too.
- Daniel
Countdown to Catastrophe
JUNE 29, 1914 (99 years ago today…)
Anti-Serb riots break out in Bosnia. In Sarajevo, numerous Serb buildings are destroyed. At least 50 people are injured, with at least one killed. (The Viennese government will later compensate the victims for their losses.) The Bosnian Parliament condemns the assassination, only to be dissolved by Vienna permanently. Though Serbian leaders also denounce the murders, Austrian officials are already pointing fingers at Serbia and the Black Hand. In Vienna, General Franz Conrad von Hotzendorf calls for immediate war with Serbia, while Hungarian Prime Minister Count Stefan Tisza says war be a mistake. For now, Austrian Foreign Minister Count Leopold von Berchtold weighs the options.
Meanwhile, Europe reacts to the assassination, though hardly anyone really seems to care.
-Russia: Czar Nicholas II orders 12 days of mourning and nothing else. He’s occupied with his son, Tsarevich (Crown Prince) Alexei, who’s suffering through another bout of (possibly fatal) hemophilia.
-France: President Poincare gets the news at a racetrack in Paris and immediately goes back to watching the horses. Parisians have something else on their minds. Following a summer election victory, leftist leader Joseph Caillaux was expecting to become France’s premier. There was just one problem: he couldn’t hold office if a family member was on trial. It turns out his ex-wife had given illicit love letters between Caillaux and his former mistress to a rival newspaper who published them. This enraged Caillaux’s mistress-turned-second-wife, who promptly shot and killed the newspaper’s editor in his office. If she was acquitted, Caillaux could become premier. If not, well…it was quite a scandal.
-Great Britain: King George V declares 7 days of mourning and nothing else. The Brits have their own problems that are, as always, somewhat more serious- in this case, Home Rule for Ireland. Following the Curragh Mutiny, (in which numerous British Army officers openly opposed Irish Home Rule and some- including future British Expeditionary Force leader Field Marshal Sir John French- resigned their positions), British leaders are trying to find a compromise to partition Ireland after numerous failed attempts to establish Home Rule. With weapons being smuggled into Ireland, civil war is a likely possibility.
And on the other side of the pond….the assassination gets a few columns in a handful of American papers, but little else is said.
-“Serbia must learn to fear us again. Otherwise, our old border regions, and not just the annexed provinces, will be in danger.” –Wilhelm Ritter von Storck, Austrian Charge d’ Affaires in Belgrade (attributed)
-Rustbelt
Rustbelt, At least the party theme song would be an easy choice: "I like big butts and I cannot lie..." ;P
As for what we're pondering, you're going to have to help me out because I'm not sure what we're pondering. I'm personally pondering ordering Chinese food.
Daniel, My favorite childhood cartoon was easily Scooby Doo.
Rustbelt, Sadly for the Austrians, their military was rather pathetic and Serbia was pretty much a match for them.
I'm not sure if I'm pondering the same thing either, Rustbelt, unless you mean that it looks like a fair number of us were born in the early 80s. That's the case for me at least. Regardless, the WWI information you've posted so far is fascinating. The buildup to the war was often so condensed in my history classes that I had no idea that the assassination didn't seem all that significant at first.
Andrew, Scooby Doo in most of its forms have always been entertaining to me as well, though I missed the live action movies. He's a classic for sure, though! =)
- Daniel
You never cease to amaze me, Andrew.
What I'm pondering is- after throwing out the original 'rump party' plan- that we use a TV show to send subliminal messages and get our message out. After that, of course, we'll take over the world with the reason and logic of our message.
Of course, people don't just gather for big shows anymore like they did for the MASH, Cheers, and Seinfeld finales. (I blame Seinfeld, since its finale was pretty bad.)
But remember when Betty White appeared on SNL after a campaign was held to get her on the show? People tuned in. Many were fans, but many watched just to see what the heck was going on. Therefore, I propose that we launch a campaign to get a famous name on SNL- one that will have recognition, be lovable to many, amusing to others, and, like Howard Stern, draw in the haters just to see what that name does.
And the best part? I've found that a campaign has already been started. All we have to do is finish it, get our guy on SNL, make a buzz so that everyone who watches TV and TV on the Internet will tune just to see what the deal is and then we TAKE OVER THE WORLD!
Here's our guy LINK
Oh, and here's a 'Pinky and the Brain' clip for good measure. LINK
-Rustbelt
Daniel, I'm glad you like the info. (I posted the first piece of info in yesterday's thread.) It is amazing in that no one in their right mind thought the assassinations would lead to anything. It eventually becomes the biggest diplomatic disaster in history. But I've got plenty of stuff for the coming weeks and I just like sharing what I've been studying for years.
And Andrew, Austria may have been a shadow of its former self, but it likely could've finished Serbia if the two had fought alone (no Germany, no Russia) in a 'regional war,' which is what Austria will hope for. This is going to change drastically when the alliance system kicks in.
-Rustbelt
Rustbelt - Heh heh... Your idea went right over my head, it seems. I blame a lack of sleep. =P Still, sounds like a good plan to me! I always did think guys like Levin spent more time giving the left ammo than they did doing anything constructive for conservatism, and while Palin caught my interest at first her Alaska reality show was a "WTF is she doing?" moment for me and my opinion of her has very much cooled since. Even before landing here I had a bad feeling that she was becoming a liability for the party, something the observations here have given me a more logical ground in.
I did read the posts yesterday (I always read and lurk here, I just didn't start commenting until the FF Spirits Within review) and they were also fascinating. Franz Ferdinand's last words stood out to me, and for some reason the old story of how the car he and Sophie died in has brought bad luck to the people who owned it just sprang to mind for some reason.
In any case I'm looking forward to reading more of it, and if you've got some information on WWI era weaponry among your collection I'd be interested in reading it. It's for a creative project I'm working on where the cutting edge of technology is at that level (I discussed it briefly with Andrew already) and I'd feel better working on that part of it if I had more than just Wikipedia to go off of. One of my favorite video games was set during WWI, which helped spark the idea for me.
- Daniel
Rustbelt, I'm all for brainwashing the public. I'd never say no to that! :)
Rustbelt and Daniel,
My problem with Palin is the way she's behaved. I was blown away with her when I first saw her. She seemed amazingly impressive.
But then she imploded in her Couric interview against softball questions... "what do you read?" How can you fail that one?
But ok, I can forgive that as a case of nerves or whatever. EXCEPT, Palin didn't acknowledge that she had blown it and she didn't do what you would expect -- which is to double her efforts to not let it happen again. Instead, she started playing the role of the victim. That is a troubling, troubling sign.
Still, I could accept it as poor management by the McCain people and I voted for him because of her. But then it got worse. Rather than buckle down and learn her craft and prove her critics wrong, she went white trash. She quit her job as governor (and I can tell you she lied about the fees it was supposedly costing). She signed up for reality TV. She started pimping her daughter for reality TV. She became 100% interested in adding to her celebrity, and she clearly didn't care about ideology except how she could use it to enrich herself. And the whole time, she played the role of victim... not leader, and she clearly misled people into thinking she was a serious candidate when she never intended to run for anything.
In the meantime, I listened to the things she advocated and they were by and large nonsense. They were either after-the-fact, finger-in-the-wind criticisms, or they were eerily similar to Santorum's talk about being a "common man" while advocating corporate socialism.
Her whole career has been about building celebrity, not trust, and she had never shown me one single moment where she tried to build up her skills or understand her ideology. Instead, she just smarts off with easy attacks and verbally attacks the people on her side.
Hm...I didn't know I was in on the Palin debate. But, what not? For the most part, I agree. Except I believe her celebrity (in ever form) is actually why some conservatives liked her. I stuck with her and tried to defend if only because she was the closest thing the Republicans had to a celebrity that could counter the fakeness (why does Google Chrome not consider that a word?)of Obama. I think most people stick with her because of that- she's seen as the only answer to Obama and Hillary's celebrity status. You could argue that her reality show was just an answer to the reality show that is the 44th administration. But, in the end, she just wants attention. In other words, a typical politician.
It's been hard to admit that I hitched myself to the wrong wagon. But now we've got other options for GOP leadership and, hopefully, more people can learn to let go.
-Rustbelt
Understood, Andrew. It took a while for it to sink in for me that she might be doing more harm than good, which I'll admit was likely just leftover shock from how vicious the Left's initial attack was. The reality show was what I think broke the spell for me, though it wasn't until posts like yours that I could really figure out why it bothered me. Then again, that's the story of my life in a lot of areas; not really being able to put my finger on why something bugs me, much less articulate why, for the longest time. In any case, like Rustbelt said now we've got good, sharp guys like Rubio and Rand to help turn things around. I just hope they can pull it off and give the country a chance for a much-needed turnaround.
- Daniel
Rustbelt, Sorry, I thought you were in that part. :)
I understand why a lot of people followed her. It's not like the rest of the GOP was all that charismatic and they certainly weren't very comforting that they knew what they should be doing. Fortunately, though, I think people have moved beyond Palin because the GOP has finally offered some real leaders. Now we just need to get her to stop attacking those people.
Daniel,
I'm glad we could help clarify your thoughts. I've found in my own life that things often take a while to crystallize and they often need to be talked out first. That's why I'm a fan of open debate because it forces you to try to justify your positions and that always helps to understand what you really believe, what you don't, and where you may be right or wrong, because that's how we grow as people.
On the left, that was the big thing that helped Palin, that the left was so obsessed with her that they were absolutely vicious. People tend to rally around people they think are unfairly attacked... it garners support and it makes people overlook their negative behavior.
Fortunately for us, we do have better choices now like Rand, Rubio, Ryan, Cruz, etc., who are effective and inspire leadership. I think they can turn this all around.
Also, Daniel, I've been looking through my books and I've got plenty of info on WWI weapons. I'm going to need to re-read a couple of things first. But I can definitely post some info. The next two weeks are relatively quiet (compared to mid, late-July, when things really heat up). I can post some weapons info along with a little country background info/bios during that time. If you have any questions, just ask and I'll post all I can.
By the way, one of the books I source the most is John Mosier's "The Myth of the Great War." If you can get a copy of it, I highly recommend it. However, I should note that it's really for the advanced student of WWI and assumes the reader is already familiar with a lot of the material.
I also looked up the curse of the Archduke's car. I honestly hadn't heard of it, and it appears to be mostly legend. (The car itself still has damage from that day in Sarajevo and little indication of numerous accidents.)
However, a British visitor to the Vienna Military Museum noticed something odd: the license reads 'A 111 118.' Maybe, "Armistice, 11 November, 1918?" The plate appears to be the original plate. If so, it can only be incredible coincidence or the prescient work of a higher power. I'll let you decide.
Here's the article: LINK
-Rustbelt
Rustbelt, I used to read a lot about WWI, but haven't in years.
World War One? Here's all you need to know: Trench warfare is the drabbest, most depressing way to fight. Don't see many picture books of the Western Front, do you? Nope.
T-Rav, On the plus side, at least you're not expected to walk across the whole continent. So there is that. :)
It's a longstanding hobby, Andrew.
T-Rav, under most circumstances, I would agree with you. Except when you're trying to fight a battle in the form of elections where the opponents have all the money and media/star power and you're left with a bunch of nincompoops to plan strategy and lead the charge. I'll take a trip to 'no man's land' with a French machine gun over that any day of the week.
-Rustbelt
Andrew, talking things out really does help in a lot of situations. Even observing the debates here has been enlightening for me since all sides come at it calmly, rationally, and with solid facts. That's always how I've picked things up best, especially when it comes to learning about the political scene.
Rustbelt, that sounds good to me. Specifically I'm looking at a few handguns, shotguns, and assault rifle/sub-machine gun type weapons that some of the characters use (ideally this will be translated into a Final Fantasy-style game if that explains anything). The main countries in this setting are influenced by Germany, Britain, and Russia, with a melting pot area that often gets imports from outside the continent, including from Italy and Japan-inspired countries. I did settle on an Austrian sidearm for one character (the Steyr M1912) since there may very well be an Austria-Hungary inspired section on the continent or close to it. The geography of this world is far from settled, as you can tell.
In any case the big types of guns I'm sorting through for characters are revolvers, shotguns, carbines, and either an assault rifle forerunner (think along the lines of the Fedorov Avtomat) or a sub-machine gun (like the Bergmann MP 18). Some info on weapons like the Mauser 1918 T-Gewehr as well as the Pattern 14 and/or M1917 Enfield rifles would be helpful, too.
I haven't heard of that book, though one of the colleges around here might have it, but I'm not a huge WWI scholar as it is. I'd probably need to get into a few basic-to-intermediate books first before moving on to that one.
Yeah, I suspected the legend was just a bit of fun. I've always found those kind of ghost stories and legends to be fun reads. The license plate is new to me, though, and it is an eerie coincidence at the very least... O_o The article was a good read in any case, though!
- Daniel
19 year old man plays video game is called "messed up in the head" and makes a sick joke: "Oh yeah, I'm real messed up in the head, I'm going to go shoot up a school full of kids and eat their still, beating hearts,’ and the next two lines were lol and jk [all sic]."
He has been in JAIL since March for making a terroristic threat and faces 8 years in prison if convicted.
Here is the story: LINK
Now, they could have more but I haven't found any articles that hint at any further evidence other than the threat. Ya'll have any thoughts.
This is not the first time you've had questionable use of the law against making a terroristic threat.
LINK
A goon says he's going to murder and maim a bunch of little kids and winds up in jail despite putting some LOLs behind the statement?
There are things one can say which will immediately trigger a strong response from most humans. That is one of them. If that creature somehow managed to exist for 19 years without figuring out that basic truth, then it is too stupid to live. I'm fine with whatever happens to it.
Daniel, It really does. One of the problems with the human mind is that it's very skilled at glossing over holes in arguments when you aren't forced to explain them to other people. Basically, if you only go over it in your head, then your mind is very good at skipping over the parts that don't work. But once you need to actually defend them (or even write them out), you pretty quickly start to see where the holes are. And in trying to fill those in, you either end up with a stronger argument or you start to realize that you were wrong.
Kit and Anthony, I'm of two minds on this. On the one hand, people say stupid things like this all the time because it's become acceptable. And there's always a line drawing problem.
But on the other hand, just because people do it doesn't make it acceptable and I think this is a really dangerous trend to allow. And when people start "joking" around about killing other people, they run the risk that they will be taken seriously because it would be irresponsible not to take something like that seriously.
Short answer: he should have known better. This was a stupid thing to say if he was just joking around because he should have known people would react poorly. And I can't fault the authorities for stepping in and making sure he can't act on this.
Ditto on twitter death threats. I honestly think the police should be rounding up everyone who makes one even though we know that most of them aren't serious because it's not the sort of thing society should allow.
Countdown to Catastrophe
JUNE 30, 1914 (99 years ago today…)
Austrian Foreign Minister Berchtold seems to be having a change of mind. Wary of Serbia’s gains in the First and Second Balkan Wars (1912 and 1913, respectively), he now contemplates a quick strike to finish off Serbia once and for all.
He tells Count Heinrich von Tschirschky, German ambassador to Austria-Hungary, that the “threads of conspiracy come together at Belgrade” and that there “must be a final settlement of all accounts with the Serbs.” Tschirschky sends a report to Berlin, saying he advised “calmly, but very emphatically and seriously, to utter a warning against such measures.”
Although Serbian papers falsely report stories of mass murders of Serbs in Bosnia, most counties don’t feel anything has changed. In fact, Nikolai Shebeko, the Russian ambassador to Austria-Hungary, notes that the assassination had no effect on the Vienna Stock Exchange.
Background: Austria-Hungary
The last remnants of the ancient Holy Roman Empire, (although Germany also makes this claim), the HRE reached its peak in the 16th century, but after the Thirty Years’ War ended in 1648, it began losing lots of territory to France and the Ottomans. It also lost standing in the German sphere of Europe as Prussia rose to power in the 18th century.
By the early 19th century, having been thoroughly beaten by Napoleon, (the HRE was formally dissolved in 1806), the leaders of the newly-declared Austrian Empire played mediator at the Congress of Vienna, but by 1866 had lost more territory to Italy and then Prussia. In 1867, the Austrians entered into an agreement of joint rule with the Hungarians living within the empire, giving the Hungarians their own parliament. (All important decisions must now be agreed upon in both Vienna and Budapest.) However, this still leaves 56% of the population- mostly Slavs- without any real say in the government.
Several sources say Franz Ferdinand was considering federalizing the empire once he reached the throne, bringing Slavs into the government and easing ethnic tensions. Some believe this is why Serbian terror leaders approved of his assassination- his plans may have resulted in southern Slavs being less interested in joining Serbia.
-Rustbelt
Anthony,
"There are things one can say which will immediately trigger a strong response from most humans. That is one of them. If that creature somehow managed to exist for 19 years without figuring out that basic truth, then it is too stupid to live. I'm fine with whatever happens to it."
You shouldn't be fine.
Saying something that is tasteless and sickening is not a crime, nor should it be.
In fact, unless the police have evidence that there was some seriousness behind his statement, its constitutionally protected speech.
Kit, Threats of violence are not constitutionally protected.
Is there evidence that the threat was serious?
What's the evidence that it wasn't? If you make a statement that can reasonable be interpreted as a threat of violence, the burden shifts to you to make the system happy that you aren't really a threat.
Excuse me, I mistyped. It doesn't even appear to have been a threat. If the father's account is accurate*, then it was a sarcastic response to someone calling him "insane".
If the father's account of the statement that resulted in the arrest is accurate*, its hard to see how it could be interpreted as a threat.
"Oh yeah, I'm real messed up in the head, I'm going to go shoot up a school full of kids and eat their still, beating hearts. LOL, jk"
Tasteless? sickening? Yes, definitely. But, it does not appear to be a threat.
*Which it may not be, I'll acknowledge that. I will say that if trial comes and it turns out the father's account was less than truthful and there was more to the statement then I'll recant my position here.
Kit, It seems unlikely that anyone would prosecute that statement alone. It could just be they're harassing the guy, but I doubt it -- there's nothing to be gained from harassing him except negative publicity. And if they were just harassing him, they would have arrested him, kept him a day or so, then released him without ever charging him.
My guess is that they have more if they are actually prosecuting him.
A threat of violence is not constitutionally proteced but that doesn´t mean we have to stop thinking like normal human beings. A joke is a joke. Next time someone says "oh, we should nuke the site from orbit", does that justify a nuclear first strike?
"A woman in Canada who came across the boy's post failed to see the humor, however, and alerted police after Internet research revealed Carter, who was 18 at the time of the incident, lived near an elementary school."
And apparently there was no better way to deal with this other than to lock him up and ruin his life. You know how we can make absolutely sure that he is no threat? Give him the chair. It´s the only way to be sure.
Seriously, 18 is pretty young to have your life ruined by a hysterical person. Don´t tell me it couldn´t happen to your child - or do you all teach your children that life is a constant walk on eggshells?
By the way, in a recent comment I threatened Thomas Friedman. Sorry Andrew. Hope nobody gets hurt when the SWAT team comes around...
Andrew,
Again, I am going from the father's statement and the police haven't said much about their case*.
I think my response is based on a lot of the stupidity we saw after Sandy Hook from the pop-tart gun to the deaf kid named Hunter. Yes, those were school so, in a strange I hope you are right because that would mean we didn't go completely "full stupid"** in hysteria after Sandy Hook.
*Or the press has not reported
**I may be a free speech zealot but I still bowdlerize sometimes. ;)
In other news...
Obama expressed support for gay marriage in a speech in Senegal, a country that bans homosexuality (like many African countries).
Thoughts?
Somehow I doubt that Obama will endorse gay marriage in any place where he is likely to be dragged away and stoned. It's all theater (of the absurd).
Andrew,
There is the possibility that the police chief and/or DA is an/are idiot(s).
But I'm hoping you are right for the reason I stated above.
El Gordo, The danger of playing it close to the line is that you may run across people who want to make an example of you or who draw the line elsewhere.
Usually, the authorities wouldn't pursue something like this. BUT... if mass killings at schools are a big deal and the state is making it a priority to stop these things before they happen, or if they looked into more of his comments and found other things that might show this isn't just a bad taste joke, or if they went to interview him and he was creepy, or if he has done things that might indicate preparation... then he's going to find himself arrested and possibly charged.
And like I said above, I really doubt this is all they have because prosecuting this seems like a guaranteed loss.
Also, as an aside, getting arrested does not ruin your life. It happens to lots of people who go on quite happily afterwards.
Kit, There is very much a chance that the police chief/DA are idiots. Or they are zealots. Or they are scared to do nothing and then get blamed if this kid does something.
Without more, it's hard to tell. But assuming they aren't nuts, then I would suspect they have more because that statement alone is not enough to convict.
Kit and tryanmax, I'm not sure why Obama said that. It seems like strange timing for him, unless he really was trying to open minds in Africa. Good luck with that though. They really are what the Democrats like to pretend conservatives are.
You know when a foreign dignitary from some noble culture comes to the US and says something that is totally backward and makes everybody uncomfortable but nobody really says or does anything about it? This is like that only in reverse.
BTW, El Gordo, I'm not saying I would arrest the kid -- I wouldn't, not for that. But when you start doing things like making threats, you do run the risk that people take you seriously no matter how obvious it may seem to you that you were just kidding. That's how humanity works. That's also why the system has safeguards -- to stop overzealous prosecutors.
"They really are what the Democrats like to pretend conservatives are."
African Christians in a nutshell. :)
"You know when a foreign dignitary from some noble culture comes to the US and says something that is totally backward and makes everybody uncomfortable but nobody really says or does anything about it? This is like that only in reverse."
Hahaha!
tryanmax, I've been trying to think of a snappy response to that and I can't! Well played, sir, well played! :D
Kit, Yep. That's why liberals don't actually believe that we should respect all cultures... just the parts they like.
"That's why liberals don't actually believe that we should respect all cultures... just the parts they like."
Yup. And if they find a part they don't like they just blame America and the Western Colonialists.
Kit,
Call me a cynic (it would be true) but from where I stand, everybody cherrypicks.
Whether partisans complain about a court overturning the will of the people in order to protect a right underserving of protection or whether they complain about a majority of people who are trampling over the rights of the minority is contingent upon whose ox is getting gored.
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