BOO!!
I hope I didn't scare you! I know, I should have save this for October 31, but there are so many events going on right now that are scaring me, why not discuss ghosts?
Okay, I have to admit it. I have kinda' sorta' become a little bit addicted to shows about the paranormal and ghost hunting. Who knew there were so many people out there hunting ghosts!
Anyway, my addiction started off innocently enough one quiet Saturday afternoon while channel surfing. I came across a show called Ghost Hunters. It is a show featuring two guys who are Roto-Rooter plumbers by day [see photo above] and ghost hunters at night and on weekends. I mean, who wouldn't want to watch a show about Roto-Rooter/Ghost Hunters, right? These two seemingly normal guys founded an organization called TAPS - The Atlantic Paranormal Society described as "a paranormal research team which investigates hauntings and other strange occurrences". They travel around the countryside with all this electronic equipment that gauges stuff and tape recorders that record EVP's (electronic voice phenomena) and ghostly answers to their questions. Okay, the answers they "record" are garbled and unintelligible, but, hey, if you listen really hard you will swear that there are real voices in all that white noise.
But my addiction didn't stop there. Ghost Hunters was just my gateway show. I just couldn't help myself! Before long I moved on to Celebrity Ghost Stories where well-known B-List actors dramatically detail their ghostly encounters and My Ghost Story where regular people recount their sightings, both on Biography Channel (yes, really!) Then came Paranormal Witness, Paranormal Cops, and Paranormal Challenge on SyFy. Heck, even A&E has their own show - Extreme Paranormal! They all have one thing in common. They have regular Joes and Janes who go around the country and even the world setting up their cameras and voice recorders investigating paranormal activity in all sorts of places. A few of them are related to academic investigations, but mostly they are like the Roto-Rooter guys. Who knew that there were so many ghosts to hunt and so many ghost hunters to hunt them! Are the encounters real or just tricks of the mind? And if I am to believe all of these hundreds of shows, ghosts must are everywhere! Do they ever leave? Are they watching me when me when I'm in the bathroom...creepy!
So, here are the questions of the day, if you dare:
1. Do you believe in ghosts or the possibility of ghosts, spirits, disembodies energies?
2. If you believe in the possibilities, then how does that effect your belief in "heaven" or "hell"?
3. Have you ever had any ghostly experiences, encounters, or unexplained events? If so, what were they and were you afraid or intrigued?
4. Or, as always, feel free to talk about whatever you want to talk about if ghosts scare you...BOO!!
56 comments:
Uh, if there's a steady paycheck involved, I'll believe in anything you say.
LOL! Bravo! Mr. Rustbelt.
Bev, I loved Ghost Hunters for many years. To me it really signifies everything that is right about America and what you don't see overseas. These guys were plumbers. In the rest of the world that meant they would remain plumbers. But like most Americans, they had other interests too and like most Americans they weren't afraid to embrace those interests. And then they took the next step and basically turned it into a business.
Tell me that isn't quintessential America, to have an usual idea, to follow up with it, and to create a new national interest because of it.
As an aside, they've found some really cool stuff.
As for your questions, I am on the fence about believing in ghosts. It's a complicated issue. I like to believe it, but there is no proof.
As for Heaven/Hell, it doesn't change my opinion at all.
As for personal experiences, I believe I once worked for Satan, but no, no ghosts experiences.
Thanks, Andrew.
In all seriousness, I tend to keep my mind very open open supernatural and paranormal phenomena by taking each case one at a time. (Though I'm pretty the so-called 'Amityville Horror' case- in terms of ghosts, not the murders- was faked.) It's just that there usually seems to be a detail or two in most cases that would be hard to fake or explain. And I applaud those who search. Today's seekers of truth sometimes become tomorrow's luminaries.
Rustbelt, I definitely applaud those who search. If we don't question, then we will never know the answers.
In a related way, I actually remember how the whole "are there other planets" thing went. In the 1970s and early 1980s, you were considered a lunatic if you believed there were planets outside our solar system. Seriously, it was considered whacko stuff.
Then a couple people found a way to locate them. Suddenly, they were finding planets everywhere and now we know the truth and no one doubts it.
That's how humanity grows, by asking questions and by lone individuals trying to prove everyone else wrong. It's a noble pursuit.
Maybe someday we'll prove the human soul. :)
Andrew, that reminds me of planet-hunting in the 19th century as well. Most scientists were convinced that Uranus (the first planet discovered with a telescope) was the last one. But both its orbit and Saturn's proved erratic, as though another source of gravity was acting upon them. So, some devoted scientists went through their equations, plotted a course, peered through the scope at the site, and- wah-lah- Neptune! Maybe if it wasn't blue, the last gas giant could've been named for the Greek god of knowledge or mathematics, given how it was discovered.
Rustbelt, Those are the people who move the world... the ones who say, "Wait a minute" and then set out to prove that you can do what everyone says you can't.
As for ghost-hunting shows, I've determined there are three ways to look at them.
1. "It's TV. It's all fake." Just to get the cynical one out of the way.
2. Maybe ghostly presences can be explained by science, as many shows seem to lean. I think many researchers look in this direction because it would mean that ghosts are like outer space or the atom; something we didn't know about before because we were unable to measure it, but now we can. It would make supernatural phenomena safe instead of frightening. Rather than being mysterious, it would be something we can quantify, explain, and maybe even control.
As Leonard Nimoy put it on the "In Search Of..." episode for ghosts (concerning the possibility of explaining them)..."what an amazing advance for science, and what a terrible loss for storytellers."
3. Ghosts could be a glimpse of another form of existence. (Our future existence?) Perhaps it's something we can't measure. Something our minds can't comprehend. In other words, life as we DON'T know it. This is both awe-inspiring and terrifying at the same time. True believers would say we have to take it on faith. Skeptics would say that because known science can't explain it, it doesn't exist. And if we went further, what would we find? The first step towards Heaven, and closeness with God? Another dimension, one incomprehensible to humans? (The stuff Lovecraftian horror is made of.) Nothing? (I, for one, would hope not.)
As a religious man, would it be wrong of me if I guessed that ghosts are souls trapped on earth either because of their past sins- pride, guilt, etc.- or the shock or their deaths (not wanting life to end yet), and thus forced to relive their spent lives while watching the living live out theirs? Would that make Earth a form of Hell?
Hm...I normally don't get that philosophical, but since the jury's still out, why not throw a few ideas out there?
Rustbelt, I believe the correct answer is yes. Congratulations! :P
Actually, sadly, I need to sleep. Goodnight, my friend.
Until tomorrow, my friend!
No, I don't believe in ghosts primarily because I believe there is an afterlife. If ghosts are real then this must be their hell. My Mormon friends told me that Mormon hell is much better than catholic hell and very similar to what we have in this realm.
But sadly I cannot prove a negative so I leave it up to the ghost hunters to find real definitive proof.
I was told a story by a security guard in my student days while working the graveyard shift at a credit validation company. He claimed he and his wife were watching TV when a couple they knew well suddenly appeared in front of them and then vanished. They both had seen the apparition and it turned out that the other couple had been murdered that night. The guard didn't give me the impression he was a BSer but who knows.
As for ghosts in general, IMO the phenomena can be explained more by hypnotic artifacts of the human mind rather than metaphysical
manifestations.
I'm also not a fan of the Ghost Hunting shows as I knew a cable show producer who openly had no qualms about bending the truth a bit for better ratings.
= TV pro wrestling.
K - What??? Tv...wrestling...isn't faked??? Noooooooo!!!!!
Once when I was a little kid (8) I thought I saw and heard a ghost. Scared the hell out of me.
*Sigh* Its a cool story, but unfortunately the ghost looked a lot like the ghost in a horror movie commercial I had recently seen (I was very sensitive to such commercials and tried to avoid them) so it was probably just my imagination.
I don't think we know everything that is out there, but I am skeptical of the notion of ghosts. Our appetite for supernatural phenomena never seem to diminish, the range and frequency of encounters with the supernatural seems to be contingent on how modernized a society is.
At one point in time people fear not only ghosts but corporeal supernatural phenomena such as vampires, werewolves and well, a whole range of supernatural creatures (there are developing countries where such things are still feared). Down the line belief in/fear of the physical supernatural fades and only ghosts remain.
Yes I'm a beleiver, I'm just not sure what is going on. My mom told me that when my older brother, who is now 65 had polio he was in a ward in Memphis with 20 or so other little kids with polio, he was about 5. Mom said she was sitting on his bed crying and he told her to stop crying that he had an angel on his bed,,,but that two kids didn't have angels...Mike pointed them out,,they died in a few days. I remember as a little kid trying to follow a ghost through the dark woods, I could just barely make it out, it was only slight luminescent against the dark. We call them willow-the-wisps around here..I dont' have an explanation for things...maybe some people are just wired different to see these apparitions.
P'shaw, noobz! I was watching Unsolved Mysteries back in the day. Coast to Coast AM has been my lullaby since high school. I can't keep up with all this other stuff, but it's pretty dull in comparison, IMO.
Yeah, I have a couple ghost stories, even though I'm skeptical of them myself. Before I was born, my parents had problems with radios and TVs turning themselves on and off in the first house I lived in. I suspect bad wiring.
There was also a phantom radio, which I occasionally experienced. You could hear rock music coming from the room at the end of the hall, but it would cease as soon as you'd investigate. Probably some mundane acoustic phenomenon.
I've done a lot of theater and, as any actor or stagehand will tell you, every theater has a ghost. I've had a few "encounters," at least according to the folks I've related them to. They're all boring--just some creeper hanging out in a shadow--but everyone insists there was no one there. Whatev's.
The unused dormitory at my alma mater was reportedly haunted by football player who's cleats could be heard on hardwood despite the carpeted floors. I stayed the night for a Halloween edition of the paper. The only thing haunted was the Taco Bell I ate for dinner.
My grandpa reported meeting "Glows" near the end of his life. But they may have been aliens.
As to heaven and hell, my views are not mainstream.
Bev
As i understand it there is a school of thought that ghosts are not disembodied spirits but rather the echoes of deep psychic trauma ingrained on a area. What we would see as a "ghost" is really an echo of the psychic turbulence of some event on the paranormal landscape. This supposedly explains why so many murders are ghostly events.
While this is an interesting theory the main criticism that might have to be answered is why are the ghosts then only of dead people. If I see robbers brutally kill my mother before me the event will be extremely traumatic for me whether I survive it or not so why would the ghost have to wait till I pass away before the psychic trauma saturates the supernal landscape.
In the end physics tells us electrons can be in more than one place at a time, if two particles become entangled we can magically manipulate one and mirror the change in the other even at distances across the galaxy, there is a tendency of of all matter to move in one direction (called by physicists the axis of evil) and the entire universe may in fact be a two dimensional holographic image pasted on the outside of the event horizon of one a black hole consisting of all the matter in the universe.
So really given this nonsense scientists do believe are true how authoritatively can they really be to dismiss Caspar the friendly ghost.
But as Penny on the Big Bang theory states: "Crystals ... now that is hokum"
Indie, physics cannot prove that light (meaning electromagnetic radiation) exists between events b/c EM is the basic tool by which we determine the existence of everything else. Given that fundamental limitation, I'd say it's foolish to insist that science can explain everything.
It would seem that you, me, and Penny are in agreement.
typo: the above acronym should be "EMR"
tryanmax: EMR doesn't exist either. The common belief that it does is based on our neural programming inside our virtual reality tanks.
While I do enjoy all the ghost hunting, the fact is that there's no scientific basis for any of it, and the stuff the do rely upon is easily explained through the way the brain works.
I certainly believe that there are things are nowhere near explaining yet about live, but things like EVPs are simply humans looking for patterns where none exists.
I still enjoy the idea though.
Changing gears, I'm impressed by Tim Scott's handling of the MLK slight. A stupider politician would have started throwing slavery insults ('You're only free if you vote Republican!')and come off looking crazy and petty (looks significant in West's direction).
Tim Scott (or rather, his spokesman) noted the slight but played it down and kept his focus on MLK, leaving the roll of attack dog to others. That is very similar to the way a certain other high profile black politician plays the game.
Anthony, That is very smart.
And if you mean Obama, then I agree. One of the smartest things Obama does is to almost never talk about race and when he does, he always leaves a quote or two that downplays the issue. It's a very smart way to play the game and I think it's helped maintain his personal popularity. In fact, outside of talk radio, no one really thinks Obama cares about race.
It's only when you look down the line at people like Holder that you see the real nasty stuff. And even he is smart enough not to give quotes about it... he just does it as policy.
Andrew, Rustbelt, let´s also not forget the dwarf planets aka trans-Neptunian objects that have been discovered in recent years.
All my life our system had nine planets and all of a sudden there are lots of Death Star-sized bodies parket out there.
I find that suspicious.
Bev, I don´t believe in ghosts but I can be persuaded. Twenty years ago I would have ridiculed anyone who believed. Not today.
I do believe that IF there are ghosts and they retain some of their humanity, the male ones will definitly watch naked women. A lot. In fact it would make sense for professional ghost hunters to seek out strip clubs and major sports events as often as possible.
The female ones? They are right behind you when you watch Downton Abbey...
El Gordo, "A lot." LOL!
I'm going to haunt a doughnut shop! :D
That's true about all those Death Star-sized objects. And they apparently move around alone.
Andrew, we should nuke them in their orbit. It´s the only way to be sure.
Sorry, I have been unable to respond so far today, but I will as soon as I can. I will just scattershot some comments and get back with others later! Sorry
Btw, despite my tone, I actual do believe that energy does not disappear, it just transmutes. And life is energy. As we progress more and more into an electronic communications, these energies will find more and more way of using it to communicate. Simple put, I believe that there are "ghosts". I also think that our brains have electrical connections and certain people have just the right synaptical connections to be able to tap into these invisible energies whether residual or active. Some of it is pure bunk, but some can't be explains away. I also believe that absolute good and positive energies exist (angels)therefore I must believe that absolute evil negative energies must exist (demons) too.
Btw Rustbelt, your check is in the mail! LOL! cynical, but sadly true. There are just some things that matter so little that there is truly "I will believe anything you mt to believe. Just make sure the check clears..."
Andrew and El Gordo - The great thing about being a ghost is that you can haunt ANYWHERE! But if you can't EAT the donuts, why would you choose to torture youself that way for all eternity?
Critch - That is a great story about your brother. I happen to believe very strongly that there are "guardian angels" as I have had many interesting experiences with my own...
I have never had any supernatural experiences of any kind, sorry to say. However, I'm inclined to think that a friend of mine and his Boy Scout troop have been visited by angels. Some years ago they were canoeing on a river in Minnesota, and some men rowed up and told them that there were some rapids and waterfalls just up ahead, which they would not be able to make it through. Troop verified it and went to thank them, only they were completely gone. Wasn't there, so I can't verify it firsthand, but that's the story.
Anyway, I've never gotten into those ghost hunter shows. The way I figure it, they can't really come up with anything conclusive one way or the other, so they provide just enough "evidence" to keep people watching.
Bev, Like the creature in Poltergeist, I plan to punch a hole into this world and extract doughnuts through it to this other dimension. :D
I agree about the "no energy is wasted." I suspect that the human sole is a form of energy, like the force, which binds the universe together and when we die, we probably go back to that.
As an aside, there is no logical reason you need to believe in evil angles just because you believe in good angels. Not everything has a polar opposite.
It is stuff like this that can't really be explained, but probably can.
Link
But then again, isn't it better if people DO believe that there can be angels watching over us?
Here is an interesting and compelling theory on Where Consciousness Comes From. Religious types might balk at the theory, but I don't think it discounts the existence of the soul, let alone its value.
I think the most awesome sentence ever strung together is "Let there be light."
light (līt/) noun
plural: lights
1. the natural agent that stimulates sight and makes things visible.
2. understanding of a problem or mystery; enlightenment.
tryanmax, That's an interesting theory, BUT he fails in one fundamental way. He fails to reach an origin. He is trying to explain the origin of consciousness, but he ends up explaining its development.
Said differently, he's telling us why the brain would find consciousness useful, but he doesn't explain what motivated the brain to decide to become useful. That's the real question... what took us from simply being meat to being aware.
P.S. Great sentence with fantastic double meaning.
Andrew, I'll have you know I do believe in evil angles, no matter what you say. Look at those right angles. They're so neat and perfect, they have to be hiding something terrible. Tell me I'm wrong.
Oh get real, T-Rav. The next thing you'll be telling me is that you think trapezoids aren't made up either.
England's Parliament has rejected intervention in Syria and the PM has stated he will respect their wishes.
Not that the US needs their help, but when even our most reliable tag-along says no, there is a serious problem.
Obama doesn't really have any good options, but his best one is probably just to let the chemical weapons usage go. All of the treaties against nuclear, biological and chemical warfare have been slowly eroding since they came into force A) because the technology has become cheaper and more widely available and B) because no one is that enthusiastic about enforcement.
Countries have to be really stupid to get hammered hard for violations of NPTs and Syria clearly hasn't done anything that stupid.
Yes, but to what about parallelograms, huh? They have two parallel lines, YET...okay, you just have to admit that geometry is just pure evil WHICH proves my point. There is ultimate Good AND ultimate evil. It's a balance of energy. And, Circles are good, angles are bad
Andrew, I've seen things, man. I've seen things.
Anthony, this was apparently a major shake-up in the UK. There's already talk of either Cameron resigning or an early summer election.
Some of the chatter I read this afternoon has it that there's actually a lot of uncertainty on whether or not the chemical weapons attack was Assad's doing at all--it may have been an underling acting on his own authority. That might explain some of what's now happening, and it might give an Obama an excuse to back away from military action. But we'll see.
Anthony,
Obama just got "pants'ed" by Europe. He thought he could lead from behind because Britain and France talked like they were going to cover his ass. THAT is why he shouldn't have been so dismissive about our traditional allies. He's demeaned Britain, laughed off France and Europe in general. He hasn't helped much on the diplomatic front with our Middle East allies either. His only hope is if Israel intervenes on their own...and then the world will scream at Israel taking care of business. Welcome to the New World Order that Obama has created by not leading abdicating the US as the one Super Power that has and could.
El Gordo, growing up with a fascination for space and a link to the space exploration industry (that's really all I can say), I actually wondered why it was taking astronomers so long to find new things. (I shudder to think how space exploration will go downhill after the Hubble is taken out of service.)
BTW , did you see this other planet that was recently discovered? (Looks like George got the last laugh, after all.)
Bev, I know Andrew's already reviewed the movie, but we really need to come up a list of 'Top Ten Ghostbusters' quotes!
Bev, Circles are indeed good. But I don't know about parallelogram. Is that anything like a parallel universe?
On Obama, he has a real problem right now. He walked right into this and he needs to simultaneously "do something" (or all his talk about chemical weapons is BS and he starts to look like the old chicken-crats) while not doing anything because nobody wants to do anything. And his only allies are the neocons.
His best bet would be bombing the presidential palace, but that's a war crime according to his people. So ultimately, there is only one solution. Do what he did to Osama bin Laden and go over there personally and drag Assad out of the country and then drop the body in the ocean.
Wait... he didn't really do that to Osama bin Laden?
TRav,
Some lower level guy getting stupid makes sense. I can't figure out how catching several bunker busters (the best case scenario or Syria) would improve Bashir's position any.
Andrew - One of his real problems is that there is credible evidence that it wasn't Assad or the Syrian gov't, but the rebels.
Bev, I can't believe Obama/Biden would be wrong about anything. Nope.
As an aside, Obama claims the reason they know is that NSA intercepted a phone call from some general. If that's not true, then maybe we should re-examine the whole NSA thing too?
And parallelograms are to evil. So are trapezoids cause they trap stuff and Isosceles triangles - They triangulate. And what's up with those dodecahedrons? They are downright diabolical!
This is the end of my geometrical knowledge...E=MC2 or wait, that's physics or science or somethin'...
Anthony, I think it helps Bashir if Obama backs down or only drops a couple bombs and does nothing. That makes him a hero.
That's about the only benefit I can see.
If bumper stickers have taught me anything, it's that the most evil shape of all is the pentagon.
Tryanmax - You win! LOL! Your invisible geometrical inspired t-shirt will arrive shortly. Please wait by your mailbox...
"Don't do it! It's a Trapezoid!"
Bev,
Obama's not one for managing relationships but its worth keeping in mind that in international politics a lot of things have their own momentum. Candidates always promise they are going to be tough (Republicans) or friendly (Democrats) enough to change things, but a lot of what happens is just as contingent on politics abroad.
European governments are perpetually unenthusiastic about military action and their citizens are even less enthusiastic. And the enthusiasm lowers even more when the action will be in the Mideast.
Just read that the people who ran the MLK event invited Tim Scott but one of his staffers emailed them that he had other plans and wouldn't be attending. Oops.
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