Our fringe is a problem. They are 6% of the American public (twice as large as gays, half as large as Hispanics or blacks, just smaller than Jews and Muslims) who act like a doomsday cult and the other 84% of the public pretty much despises them. What’s more, they have become obsessed with destroying the Republicans and every conservative who doesn’t foam at the mouth like they do.
Fortunately, everything I’ve seen tells me that they have peaked at something less than 20% of the GOP, and their influence is waning because their own disloyalty makes them unreliable. And I’m seeing a lot of signs that the Republicans are moving on from them, including a lot of big name conservatives like Tom Coburn, Charles Krauthammer, George Will, Brit Hume, Fred Barnes, Marco Rubio, Paul Ryan, etc. There are even signs that Rand Paul is avoiding them. The writing is on the wall.
What will probably finish them off is the re-election of Mitch McConnell. For many years, the fringe dictated Republican policy, even as they falsely whined that the Republicans were under the control of secret RINOs. Lately, the Republicans have started fighting back and they seem to have found a formula to defend themselves against the fringe: full and open support of the people the fringe attacks. This is bad news for the fringe. So they, led by Glenn Beck and Mark Levin, have chosen Mitch McConnell as a demonstration of their power. If they can unseat McConnell in the primary, then they believe they can cow the Republicans back into line. But in taking this risk, they are exposing their weakness to the Republicans. If they lose, then their influence will be destroyed within the Party.
My money is on McConnell.
In any event, I am done with them. It’s not productive to whine and scream about traitors and doomsday. It’s pointless to discuss a quasi-ideology that is irrational and can’t even define itself except as requiring the outing of the disloyal. It is dishonest to make up facts, to invent secret truths, and to try to trick people into following you. So from now on, I have no intention of talking about these shits anymore because they are simply not relevant to America’s future.
Instead, I’m going to talk about conservatism, something people like Levin, Savage, Rush, Beck, Hannity, Bachmann, Cruz, and the rest know precious little about. I’m going to start Wednesday by talking about the agenda I wrote about and we’ll see where that takes us. It’s time to talk about America.
But first, there was something that happened this Sunday that needs to be called out. The fringer in question is a local radio host named Jimmy Lakey. Lakey is another Levin/Beck/Limbaugh. He banks on his audience being low-information listeners who simply lap up the lies he spews as he tells them they are superior Americans while he warns them that they can’t verify the things he tells them because some mystery conspiracy won’t let this information out... except to him. Here’s what he did Sunday.
As I was preparing to watch football, I suddenly got a call from a relative. They were deeply worried about “what was happening in DC” and they told me to turn on Lakey. So I did. Here is what Lakey said:
1. There are over a million veterans in DC right now.Glenn Beck then put this on his website (complete with video) and Drudge linked to it too.
2. They are trying to protest something (unexplained) which is bad for Obama.
3. Obama fears them and said something (unexplained).
4. This caused them to start toward the White House to voice their objections.
5. The evil tyrant Obama (with the full support of Boehner... naturally) “called out the riot police.”
6. There are "riot police surrounding the White House right now!"
7. There are reports they’ve fired tear gas into the crowd.
8. But don’t expect to find this on the news because the MSM won’t tell you about this. “Only a couple images have leaked out onto the net.”
9. Then he finished with a gratuitous attack on the Republicans for “being identical to the Democrats blah blah blah” and not supporting the veterans.
None of this is true.
Based on the photos, there were only a couple thousand people tops... maybe less than 2,000. See below.
As anyone who has lived in DC can tell you, this is for show. This is what they always do when protest groups come to town... and Glenn Beck knows it! There are segments of these groups who like to get arrested for fundraising purposes, and the DC police come out and negotiate that so no one gets hurt. It's all for show and only those who want to get arrested. Then everyone goes home. These cops left after less than two minutes. No one fired tear gas... no one even had tear gas. Watch the video and you'll see that the cops didn't even raise their voices.
Lakey's presentation is a lie. It is the same type of lie all these guys keep inventing. They make things up to sell you the idea that they are “genuine” and everyone else is a traitor. They make things up to scare you. They play on your ignorance of the law, of the constitution, of how the government works and of world events to sell you a doomsday version of the world to outrage you. Then they feed you this line of shit that they are the only ones who can tell you the truth because everyone else is trying to suppress the truth. It is despicable.
There is no Republican plot to shutdown Levin as he argues. There is no secret informant telling Beck that the Republicans are plotting against Beck or Freedom Works as he and they claim. The media does not control the net. The media does not control Fox News. The Republicans are not in league with the Democrats. And the fringe has done more damage to the Republican brand with the public in the last few years than decades of Democratic attacks. Seriously, stop believing a word that you hear from these people.
That’s my final word on the matter. Talk radio is dead to me. It’s time to move on to something constructive. It’s time to talk about conservatism. It’s time to take an optimistic look forward, as Reagan did, and ask ourselves how we make America better and help her live up to her potential.
45 comments:
Hear hear! I used to listen to Rush, Beck and Levin, but it's been pure hate for months now and it's all aimed at the Republicans. And half the stuff they say I know isn't true. I've stopped listening because it's like listening to MSNBC.
I look forward to seeing what you have to say about conservatism. It's about time we got back to that!
Also, as for the vet numbers, what kind of fool schedules anything on an NFL Sunday? The right really needs to get some people who pay attention to the real world.
Kelly, That's a good way to put it. It is like listening to MSNBC.
I think it's high time we got back to talking about conservatism. Conservatism is a wonderful thing when you actually believe it and use it..
As for the NFL, I doubt Levin knows what the NFL is, and I think he was the impetus for this rally. He's the one who claimed he would bring a million veterans to the Capitol to challenge Obama. 998,000 to go.
Andrew, first, I prefer the college game to the sterilized pro game any day of the week.
But as for the topic at hand, I completely lost faith in talk radio last year. It was always 'Romney's not good enough,' 'We can't trust Romney,' etc., etc. I can remember slamming my fist on the dashboard and yelling, "so, what do you want? Four more years of Obama? 'Cause this is how you get it!"
They don't get strategy and don't understand how elections are won or lost. They'd sooner fall on the sword and give victory to the opposition before supporting someone is isn't 100% pure and angry. (Hm...that sounds like a contradiction.)
And I'm tired of the hate. I'm done with them, too. As Orson Scott Card once said, "life is too short to spend it around such terrible people."*
(*- He was talking about James Cameron's on-set behavior while making 'The Abyss.' Card had been hired to write the novelized version.)
Rustbelt, I've always been more of a pro fan when it comes to football (though I prefer college hockey), but I can't disagree with you about the game becoming so sterile. I miss the randomness and "realness" of the NFL in the 1970s!!
On the other issue, that is a great quote from Card and so appropriate. I lost faith little by little in talk radio starting in 2008 when I realized that so much of what they were saying was simply demonstrably false. Then in 2010, they went insane and it became about witch hunts and eliminating those who weren't pure (and angry) enough. And these days, every time I've listened, all I hear are false, angry rants against the Republicans.
In terms of winning, that's the thing people need to realize: talk radio's goal is not for conservatives to win, it is to attract an audience. And the best way to attract an audience is to keep listeners outraged and isolated and thinking that you are the only one who can save them. That is, by its very nature, inconsistent with helping conservatism. And that is what they are selling now. I'm done with it.
Fortunately, as I note, they remain a tiny minority and their influence seems to have peaked.
Andrew.....I have a different take on talk radio. Starting in the late 80's when Limbaugh started, there was only a limited audience for him and other conservative radio hosts. There still is. They were, and still are, a solitary, not very influential voice in R circles.
Starting in 1995(?) after OKC bombing, Clinton (and a compliant media) began applying Alinsky's rule: "Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it.” They set out to make talk radio the "voice of hate," rather than an opposing viewpoint to the prevailing political opinion. In my opinion, they have succeeded beyond their wildest dreams, in that now, many people talk about the crazed, angry and hateful talk radio hosts, as if they speak for the R's.
They don't speak for the R's, as evidenced by their losses across the board in the last election. They have a loyal fan base, that is fed up with the way our country is being run, and see it sliding ever more away from what they believe it was founded upon. There is no other place for people like that to go.
So, do we agree with the left and the D's and continue shooting ourselves in the foot by attacking them? Or do we start acknowledging that there is still a strong strain in this country that is fed up with leviathan and clamors for change? Who else is doing it? Who else will do it?
As for your stat that this attitude comprises only 20% of the country, correct me if I'm wrong, but I heard/read somewhere that only 30% of the country supported the Revolution in the 1700's.
Yes, ALL the talk radio hosts are entertainers. They must be to maintain viability in their industry. So I discount the hyperbole, bombast and outright "us versus them" rhetoric that we hear a lot of the time, and focus on their main message of less government, more freedom, less PC and ongoing battle against the Left and the Dems.
I have never even heard of this "Lakey" host you refer to. Obviously he local/regional so his influence is limited to his radio audience. It is fruitless to ascribe a movement to any one person, or group (Limbaugh, Beck, Palin, Cruz, TP'ers, etc.). They each have their reasons (usually $$$ or power) for being part of the age-old fight tyranny movement.
I think there will be a spark soon that coalesces the movement into a viable, influential force that will force change on the country. It won't come from a Levin, a Rush, Beck or Lakey. More likely an overreaction on the part of an armed "agent of the government" that will prompt a violent reaction from the mob. Words, blather and speeches aren't enough to rouse the American people.
I think back to a couple appropriate aphorisms:
- - Don't poke a tiger
- - We have awakened a sleeping giant
I pray that we can "re-transform" our country and its institutions to more resemble the original dream of a Constitutional Republic. Your ideas and tactics written down in your manifesto make sense and need to be adopted by either the R's or D's, I don't care who gets credit as long as we try stopping this inexorable descent into increased governmental power and influence in our everyday lives.
So, I think the radio hosts and the main faces of the "conservative" movement are the shock troops, trying to prod America out of its lethargy and blinders before it is too late for any pushback. But to say that they are full of hate shows that the Left's tactics continue to work and shape most Americans opinion of them. When in reality, they serve as an antidote to the constant barrage arrayed against conservatives.
For me, the scales falling from my eyes regarding talk radio had less to do with any emotional outbursts and more to do with the self-contradiction that they all exhibit.
The clearest example I can recall that got me to quit Levin was during the last election. I can't remember which came first, but on one day, Levin was excoriating anyone who would ask a presidential candidate whether they would repeal Obamacare because presidents on their own can't repeal anything. (Get off the phone, you jerk!) But on another day, Levin was tearing into Romney for saying the exact same thing when asked whether he'd repeal it.
I can't recall any other specific examples, but you can catch any of them in this sort of self-contradiction if you listen to any of them for more than an hour. (Which I still do on occasion, except for Levin.) Actually, if you listen to Rush--who in my opinion was the last good man standing until very recently--he'll contradict himself repeatedly within a single monologue. Part of me wonders if it isn't a game to him; he's played similar stunts in the past, though he would usually have revealed them by now.
In addition, I've been put off by grand displays of pettiness by Savage and Ingraham regarding contracts with their distributors. Both have gone off the air for brief stints as a result of the disputes, a move which in my opinion shows little regard for their audiences.
In the particular case of Beck, I must criticize his radio show for becoming little more than a three-hour promo for all his other projects. Every few minutes it's, "buy my book," "subscribe to my website," "sign up for the next rally," "tune in to my show, tonight," and "call your cable provider and tell them to carry The Blaze!" There's probably less than 20 minutes of actual commentary left on that show.
One last thing: anybody who listened to all the shows religiously as I once did was well aware of the rivalry between Beck and Levin. Well, apparently the two have set aside their differences in order to save the Republic. I call shenanigans and cite their mutually waning influence as cause for the team-up. I wonder how long before they all team up to form the Justice League of Talk Radio America?
Patriot, Honestly, I disagree with everything you've said.
1. They are highly influential. No matter how much they claim to be "oppressed outsiders" who get ignored by the Republicans, they have been controlling the Republican agenda since 2010 (if not a lot longer). It is a conspiratorial lie when they claim to be outsiders. It is their views that shape the platform and their allies on the platform committee. They are the king makers and it is their kings who set the agenda -- the Republican establishment they hate so much does its best to approximate what they want and give it to them, and then they will change their agenda repeatedly in response to their criticism. Republican candidates don't dare get on the wrong side of talk radio and if they do, they run around kissing rings.
Moreover, they've been anointing the candidates in the primaries, and it is their candidates who go down in flames. They are the ones the pundits quote in articles. They control their listeners, who look to them to be told what to believe and who will then flood phone backs like an army of parrots. And they have been coordinating everything from the anybody but Romney campaign to the Ted Cruz is God campaign.
The idea they don't control the Republicans is a self-serving lie told by talk radio to maintain the audience's cult-like experience... "We are alone... against THEM!"
2. The Democrats never succeeded in painting them as voices of hate or anything else... they did that themselves. THEY make themselves out as extremists. THEY seethe on the air. THEY attack and insult everyone who isn't as pure as they claim to be. And it's bizarre that they whine about the MSM painting them as extremists and then turn around and embrace the label by telling their audience how pure they are and how we need to drive out the unpure.
3. I did not say they are 20% of the country... they aren't. They are 6% of the country. They are about 20% of the Republican Party. Six percent of the public makes them about twice as numerous as gay, but less than half of Hispanics, less than half of blacks, and one ninth the number of women. They are a tiny minority. And replacing them would be very easy, which is why I'm not worried if they form a third party. At this point, I actually hope they do.
4. No, the Republicans are not losing because these people don't turn out. That is again a self-serving lie told by these people to convince their followers that they are on the right track. It is a mathematical impossibility for the Republicans to win with this base. If every single fringer had turned out in 2012, the Republicans still would have lost the same way they did. The Republicans are losing because in trying to placate these people (an impossible task), they have driven away all other Americans in unbelievable numbers. That is why the Republicans need to change. That isn't an opinion, it is a mathematical fact.
(continued)
5. You discount the hyperbole because you agree with it, so you look past it. The other 84% of the American public does not. To them, talk radio and their followers are as nasty, ignorant and unwanted as radical socialists are to you... radical socialists, by the way, who also discount how much their rhetoric turns the public off.
6. Talk radio and the fringe are not shock troops. They are a disorganized rabble in the midst of a tantrum. They do not preach conservatism. They do not support conservatism. I doubt they even recognize conservatism. They do not support the Republicans. They hate everyone: Republicans, Democrats, "the Washington elite", Hispanics, woman, blacks, gays, the public, the unemployed, environmentalists, the educated, unions, Muslims, government workers. They are throwing a tantrum, a tantrum led by opportunists who are getting rich by spinning them into a frenzy of paranoia and confusion while telling them they are finally achieving clarity.
7. You've dodged the issue by saying you never heard of Lakey. Lakey is just the latest example. Levin spends his time smearing the Republicans for any number of thoughtcrimes. He spins paranoid fantasies about "high ranking Republicans trying to shut him down." Savage is a fucking lunatic. Beck has gone messianic and wants to be worshiped. He routinely invents false attacks on him and uses those to smear Republicans. His latest (follow the link) is to invent anonymous sources who are telling him how evil Mitch McConnell is... Freedom Works is joining him in this. Last Friday, as he so often does, Rush spent 40 minutes denigrating the Republicans as not willing to fight and "not wanting to win." He smeared them as incompetent, as stupid, as betraying the American people so they can have MSM friends or make the Democrats happy. He actually said that the Republicans are the reason the public is not "optimistic because they won't represent you." Then he bizarrely attacked them as being disloyal for attacking Ted Cruz, claiming that we should never say bad things about fellow conservatives. He finished by lapping Ted Cruz's balls with vague yet effusive praise. The examples are endless and across the board. Name one talk radio host who wasn't in the anybody-but-Romney camp even after Romney the nomination? Name one talker who doesn't say many times each day that the Republicans "will surrender as they always do" or who isn't claiming that the Republicans "want Obamacare" even though the Republicans have been completely unified in their opposition to Obama and Obamacare since 2008.
This goes on every waking minute they are on the air. They lie to you about something Obama has done, then they blame ts on Boehner, McConnell, McCain, and other RINO boogeymen. Then they list a series of invented crimes against the Republicans and they unleash a torrent of hate at them. Then they finish by assuring you that THEY alone, my pretties, will always be pure and will fight for you even though those big bad Republicans are doing secret things behind the scenes to shut them up.
That's called being a traitor, not being a shock troop.
tryanmax, I've been souring for a long time. One of my early clues was how completely wrong they were whenever they discuss the law or how the government actually works. That taught me to take a lot of what they say with a grain of salt.
Then Beck totally turned me off with his slap fights with other celebrities over things like a seat on the subway. What a pathetic, petty little man.
Savage, of course, is just too stupid for words, so I never listened to him.
But things didn't really head south for me until 2010. After they got caught with their pants down by the Tea Party thing, they went uber-conspiratorial and uber-nasty. Everything became about purity and denigrating every Republican they could find. Good people found themselves viciously savaged and their whole agenda became hate and NO!
Since that time, it's only gotten worse as it's become a reflex for them to hate the Republicans. I'm not even sure they know who the Democrats are anymore. And as Kelly says above, listening to Rush or Levin or the rest today is basically like listening to MSNBC.
In any event, I'm done with it. It's time we moved on and moved past the whiners and witch burners.
Andrew......I think you ascribe way too much influence to these guys.
I've already moved on
I used to be one of those Establishment Republicans,,,,I'm not a Tea Partier however,,,I really feel like the GOP has not been doing it's job, anywhere,,,they never closed the border, they have allowed gun rights to be chipped away piecemeal, they've been spending money right along with the Dims as fast as they could print it...and then they wonder why people are mad at them. I voted for Romney, even though I had major doubts about his conservatism...on a lot of issues. I disagree with the Tea Partiers over many issues....I really don't see boogeymen everywhere...frankly the .GOV is too inefficient to do too much in the way of stopping free speech etc...but I'm staunchly pro-2nd Amendment, we need to slow the spending, and we need to get back on track. As much as I hate abortion, I feel that battle is lost. I told my priest we need to spend the church's money on education and support not on picketing and protesting. The gay rights thing is another dead horse...move on for crying out loud...Hell, my gay nephew in Texas is a Republican...As to the talk radio people,,,Rush is probably the most reasonable one, I think Beck has a screw loose and Levin is a smartass...I don't want anyone thinking I'm gonna vote Democrat anytime soon,,,I really believe they have lost it. I think we could reclaim many conservative Democrats if we get back on target.
Patriot, There was an article the other day at DC which listed the "20 most influential conservatives." It actually listed around 50. Almost all of them were talk radio host or people like Palin and Newt. 7 or 8 of the top 10 were talk radio hosts, and those that weren't (like Boehner -- were listed as negative influences in that he could stop conservatives).
The pundits, the blogs, the conservative journals repeat what these guys say. They interview them and do articles about their influence. Their follows flood the comments of every one of these places with their words and with links. Go to HotAir and look at how many people are quoting nonsense from Beck or Levin.
They have changed the course of primaries all over the country -- Nebraska, Indiana, Missouri, etc.
Republican politicians flock to their programs to pay them homage. When they have been accused of heresy, they come to kiss the ring and accept punishment so they can return to the fold.
People like Rush have long noted that they dine privately with Republican elite.
They claim to reach tens of millions of people each day and they routinely claim to be able to control their actions. Conservatives like Tom Coburn have noted that all it takes is one attack on the air and his phone banks heat up with people repeating the attack.
You yourself call them shock troops.
Jed, LOL! Bravo! :)
Critch, Agreed. Just because I think talk radio is a disastrous dead end does not mean I think the GOP is perfect. Far from it.
The GOP has a lot of problems that need to be fixed. We need to get them focused on offering conservative solutions to problems... returning to the party of Reagan. If we do that, I think the party becomes unbeatable and we will win back millions of the people we've lost.
But to do that, we need to drop all this hostility to the party. Shouting our own side down, demanding the unattainable under penalty of death, trying to push the party down a 6%-approved dead end, and spewing rage will not help... it will do the opposite.
I am very encouraged by the emergence of a group of young conservatives who seem to understand the types of changes we need. We should be encouraging them, promoting them, and offering them our ideas. That is where we should be focused, not on phony RINO hunts and made up outrages. Obama is bad enough without inventing new crimes to attribute to him. Let's focus on winning back the public.
Andrew Price said: "Obama is bad enough without inventing new crimes to attribute to him. Let's focus on winning back the public."
An extremely good point. I want these people to read what Reagan and others told them. Be a Republican.
Critch, Thanks! And I agree completely. Reagan gave the perfect model. Let's do what Reagan told us. That will work. :)
By "do what Reagan told us" I assume you mean, claim the mantle of Reagan, accuse all others of betraying the legacy of Reagan, and worship a self-invented mythical Reagan who never was.
Oh, I should've punctuated that "/sarc" just in case anyone doesn't know me.
By "do what Reagan told us" I assume you mean, claim the mantle of Reagan, accuse all others of betraying the legacy of Reagan, and worship a self-invented mythical Reagan who never was.
Bingo! LOL!
Arrrg. No... just no.
tryanmax, In all seriousness, I have been thinking for a long time of outlining how the modern "conservative movement" is almost the opposite of everything Reagan stood for, and instead draws their roots back to Pat Buchanan rather than Reagan... but I simply haven't had the time to put together how to explain it and lining up quotes to prove it. But the more I hear these days, the more convinced I am that this is true.
Reagan was a master of his trade. He got along well with the Democrats in Congress, often better than Tip O'Neal got along with them. He did as much educating as he did politicking when it came to getting America to go along with him. He wasn't the only one that was pointing the right direction, but I think he was the best.
Critch, Agreed. What made Reagan so effective was that he treated everyone like a potential friend, he spoke to them earnestly and in terms that mattered to them, and he stuck with common sense rather than ideology when he explained his beliefs and the things he wanted. Basically, he came across as a really nice, smart guy you wanted to like and who told you things you knew to be true, even if you had somehow not realized it before. That made him irresistible.
Add to that that there was never a doubt that he wanted to make America better for everyone, and he became this incredibly persuasive force in politics.
Unfortunately, too many today view what he did as magic, like he was somehow doing something strange and unknown. He wasn't. He was just a nice man who understood what he believed and told people what he wanted. That should be very easy to repeat... but apparently, it's not.
"He was just a nice man who understood what he believed and told people what he wanted."
As anyone who has actually read his diary can attest. That desire to make America better for everyone comes through in every page. And the world, too.
Have a read courtesy of the Reagan foundation: LINK
My residual sympathy for the "fringe" and talk radio is running out, too. I used to get much joy from talk radio. I used to say, I get where they are coming from. They mean well. We share the same principles, so we´re on the same page, right? And even (especially?) a conservative political party needs a right wing.
In theory that still holds true. It just isn´t the reality of today. Today these people are forcing me to choose.
Maybe talk radio used to convert some people 10 or 15 years ago. I don´t know. Today I cannot imagine any normal, non-liberal, non-political guy to stumble on Limbaugh or Levin and come away even mildly intrigued.
They are preaching strictly to the core of the core of the conservative base. And I´ll say it: The "base" doesn´t need any more coddling. Principled conservatives who know what they stand for should be able to manage without constant affirmation, wishful thinking, self-defeating stunts etc. Surely people who claim to love the constitution can figure out how the legislature works. I´m not an expert but I know this: "Don´t blink!" is not a strategy and spare me the lectures on how it worked for Patton.
Conservatives don´t need any more principles. They need votes. The GOP needs a MAJORITY. That´s all.
By the way, I hate the phrase "folded like a cheap suit". What the hell does it mean? All suits fold. Expensive suits fold nicely.
Andrew, I like to listen to the podcasts over at Ricochet. In past weeks the contributors - John Podhoretz, Peter Robinson, Jonah Goldberg, Rob Long, James Lileks - have talked a lot about being personally attacked as RINOs and worse. They make fun of it, but you can tell they are disappointed and a bit peeved. When guys like these are attacked from the right, that is what I mean by being forced to choose. Not a hard choice but we shouldn´t have to make it.
El Gordo, One of the reasons I think the fringe has peaked is because you are seeing precisely that -- they are aiming witch hunts now at people with impeccable credentials and that's causing a lot of people to wake up in a "what are we doing?!" sort of way.
I'll respond more a little later. I need to meet with a client.
One more thought: A guy like Adam Carolla is probably doing a better job of pushing conservative/libertarian ideas into the mainstream than Limbaugh or Levin and the rest. Here is someone who doesn´t even call himself a conservative and who can´t go thirty seconds without talking about masturbation (and worse) but he hammers liberalism and its nasty effluents regularly. In small doses. Without sounding scary or going all political.
It is interesting that Carolla and Dennis Prager do shows together. A more unlikely pair can hardly be imagined. I like the idea that this is possible.
El Gordo, I agree. Maybe 15 years ago, average people could have listened to Rush and then thought, "Wow, I am a conservative!" But not these days. These days, it comes across exactly like the stereotype and they make it clear that only true believers are welcome.
And I agree, parties need wings, especially majority parties because that means they have a wide swath of the public with them. The problem is that this particular wing has decided to go to war with the rest of the party and the consequences are disastrous.
And yeah, I'm getting sick of hearing the Patton thing. Patton wasn't devoid of strategy and he didn't run wildly at the enemy screaming lies at his own troops about made up German actions.
El Gordo, I also agree about Carolla. This is a point I've long made about conservatives: they need to diversify. They need to find new (non-scary) ways to reach people. They need to sell their message in ways that people don't even know they're being sold. They need to learn to tailor their message. They need to learn to reach new audiences. Screaming into a microphone reaches at best 3% of the public. Comedians, movies, sport stars, books, films, clever advertising, joint ventures with fund raisers, etc. reach hundreds of millions.
Andrew, wut I jess red you's sayin' is this:
need to diversify = compromise
sell their message = tell lies
tailor their message = tell lies
ways that people don't even know they're being sold = tell damned lies
find new (non-scary) ways to reach people = tell lies with pretty words
reach new audiences = compromise and tell lies
Comedians, movies, sport stars, books, films, clever advertising, joint ventures with fund raisers, etc. reach hundreds of millions. = just give up and let the liberal, progressive, Marxist, communist Democrats win.
probably not tryanmax, Let's streamline. Clearly, everything I said translates into just give up and let the liberal, progressive, Marxist, communist Democrats win, because that is the alternative to the talk radio platform.
Too-shay!
Right on, Reel 'Mer'kan! I predict. As long as the establishment traitors can´t get their act together and grow a spine, the base who are the silent majority of Americans, will not turn out. It´s elementary logic and common sense. If the Republicans can´t get everything we true conservatives want after losing an election, they don´t deserve to win.
Also, looked at a map lately? The Demonrats have the big city degenerates and illegals but we own the heartland. In terms of square mileage, we beat them anytime. The GOP appeasers are just squandering that advantage!!
LOL! Hence our new slogan... "One acre... one vote!" ;-P
Sadly, the idea of "if we can't get everything we want, then the GOP deserves to lose" is quite popular at the moment.
In general I agree with you. Although if it wasn't for people like Savage we wouldn't have such great titles such as calling Edwards the "Silky Pony".
The GOP did this to themselves when they were in complete control of congress and presidency. It would have been a great opportunity to implement many of the fixes being floated by Ryan today. Instead they got bogged down in useless crap and lost the faith people had in the party. They also spent money almost as fast as the dems. In addition, the GOP would do a terrible job negotiating. Too often the dems would start way to the left and the repubs would start about the center and be forced to compromise left center. Finally, it seems that repubs have often attacked their own as often as the other side which is just bizarre. McAin made his name as being "The Maverick" but often he was just an asshole. I think this started the trend of these guys and initially they were fun to listen to. But rather than continuing to be pragmatic and entertaining they now sound creepily like mini-Stalins or Hitlers. I always assumed they would sort of burn themselves out; get so out there that nobody would listen or pay them. I keep waiting...
Koshcat, I can't disagree that the GOP has caused this. With the exception of the Reagan years and the first couple years of Newt, they have been horrible as a party. They ignore their principles. They spend like crazy. They regulate as Big Business commands. They periodically go on bizarre jihads to try to restore America to an 1950s that never was.
They have failed as a party and they need a reboot. No doubt.
But the current fringe is not the answer. And in truth, the GOP is largely to blame for them too. When a whacko shows up with a good idea, you steal the idea and stiff-arm the whacko. The GOP didn't. Instead, they lionized the whackos and they started pandering to them. This resulted in the party shifting toward the whackos and adopting their rhetoric and their style, even if not their policies. The result was a toxic party that is now run by the insane or those too afraid the challenge the insane. And they are bleeding normal people across the spectrum.
On McCain, I agree. He's a shit. He always has been. It's not that his views are so horrible, but he's very disloyal in how he handles them. He's also got a strong need to surrender and to trash his own side. BUT... the fact that he is bad does not excuse the identical behavior by the fringe. I'm also sick of McCain being used as the boogeyman. The fringe loves to scream that the GOP is run by RINOs and they always point to the same 4-5 people led by McCain. A party of millions with hundreds upon hundreds of elected representatives cannot be controlled by 4-5 random Congress critters. And it's just paranoid fantasy when they keep claiming that these people are running the party. Since 2008 at least, the party has been run by people who live in total fear of and completely pander to the fringe. But like liberals, the fringe doesn't want to accept responsibility for their failures so they go with the liberal delusion that their views would sell if only we could get rid of the people who are stopping the public from hearing them. It's bullshit.
BTW, In terms of them burning out, I can tell you that they are bleeding listeners because their rating numbers are down and because I know a lot of conservatives who have tuned out. But keep in mind, they don't need a lot of people to function. If a talker gets a million people, then he's a superstar. That's why their goals are to pander to the most loyal, most susceptible listeners. The GOP, by comparison, needs to attract 70 million voters to succeed.
I wonder if this also an issue with the "new media". It seems that it is easier to get your voice out across the country than it used to be. Those of us who are working and taking care of kids don't pay a lot of attention to these cranks but retired folks who sit around all day cleaning their guns have plenty of time.
Koshcat, I think that is certainly part of it. The internet has let people search out people just like themselves and form bubbles. Then they soon start to believe that "the vast majority of the public must be with us" because everyone they speak to agrees with them.
In effect, it gives the crazies a false sense of how many of them there are and how they are perceived.
Plus there's the angle that "I've met all these people online from different parts of the country, so we're everywhere!" Not to mention, "They're from far away places, so we're really different. We're not all in the same bubble."
True. So you get the sense you know a lot more people than you do, that they are everywhere, and that they all have the same views you do. Then you turn on the radio and hear your views parroted back at you in a conspiratorial "everyone believes this but the MSM won't tell you about that" way, then it's really easy to think that everyone thinks like you do because you essentially exclude all the evidence that tells you that you are wrong.
Andrew, I just read a comment on another site that illustrates your point. Some true conservative wrote "there are at least 40 million of us", meaning the tea party. This is beyond satire.
They are out there. Too bad they are invisible and don´t vote, eh?
And how can this guy assume that every tea party protester or sympathizer of 2010 is down with everything the right does now? They were a fairly heterogeneous group. That is what made them likeable.
El Gordo, Exactly right on both points. This is what happens when you live in a bubble... you start to assume that the whole world is like you. And that's what this guy is doing.
If they are 40 million people, then where are they hiding? They don't show up in television/radio ratings, they don't go to rallies, they don't show up in polls, and they don't vote apparently. So where are they?
Blacks do this too actually. Since they tend to cluster together in black areas and they tend associate mainly with other blacks, when asked what percentage of the population is black, they vastly overstate their numbers. In some studies on this in the last couple years, blacks (on average) estimated that they were 36% of the population, even though they really are 11%. Same thing here.
And yeah, it's funny how he assumes that every tea party person must share his exact views. That comes from the fact that everyone around him shares those views too.
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