Tuesday, July 7, 2015

Let's Talk About Flags...

Suddenly there is all this controversy about flags. The good news is that flags now have meaning to people. I have wondered for a long time if the US flag actually meant anything anymore. Since the 60's, burning the US flag has been all the rage for the "counter-culture" advocacy groups to rally around to call out xenophobia, and for the patriots to rally around in response.

But suddenly there have been flags that have been flying for generations that are causing all sorts of trouble. Since the shooting in Charleston that left 9 people dead in Charleston, the Conferate flag is being vilified even though it has been flying for 150 years in the South. You would have to really understand real Southerners to get why they see it as not racist, but...Southern.

And then there's the Rainbow flag flying high for LGBTQWhatevers. Since the Supreme Court's recent decision it has sprung up everywhere on social media as a "rallying cry" for those to show solidarity and, frankly, to persecute those who dared not change their avatar***.

Which brings me to several points. First is, wow, now flags suddenly have meaning and everyone seems to be rallying behind their flag like some feudal English "War of the Roses" which is weirdly refreshing. Refreshing in that flags now have meaning.

But here is another point for which I give credit to a friend that I spoke to over the Independence Day weekend celebration in my beloved Texas. If flags have meaning, why does the US flag, the symbol of our country, get subordinated to the flag of another country on our own soil? The Supreme Court recently upheld a 9th Circuit opinion that displaying the American flag on Cinco de Mayo at an American High School was "not safe" because of threat of violence from Mexican students. The Washington Post called it a "heckler's veto", in that those who threaten violence have dominion over the display of our own flag in our own country.

Ultimately, we have become more divided because flags have meaning now and none unite us. If we can only rally behind one flag as one people united in making the world better for all as our Founders envisioned. Let's discuss.

***As for the social media persecution, recently I have been a victim. And yes, I am using the word "victim" of this persecution because I chose to "unfriend" one of many of my Facebook "friends" because of the evil comments making the rounds in the aftermath of the Supreme Court's gay marriage decision. I have a broad spectrum of "friends" on Facebook who differ wildly in political/social opinion. When I chose to "unfriend" one of them (among many), he branded me a "homophobic bigot" and you can imagine how that went over with me. I have always thought I have been very careful about limiting my political opinion to political websites and this blog. I made the mistake of "friending" a person at work who took umbrage that I not only did not change my avatar in support, but that I had the temerity to "unfriend" him for his assault. So I warn you, if you are on any kind of social media, do NOT "friend" anyone you work with. Facebook, in particular, is not the venue for any kind of political discourse. One day soon, I will expand on my thoughts on what "friend" means these days...


Kit said...

The school incident is disturbing.

Anthony said...

American flag burning is how we let idiots mark themselves out. If a group wants to get the public to stop taking them seriously, burning the flag is a great place to start.

I confess to being broadly indifferent to the gay flags and the Mexican flags, but its insane to let an American public school put any flag about the stars and stripes.

As for the Confederate flag, CNN posted a very interesting poll last week indicating that the Confederate flag is still supported by most whites and detested by most blacks (with Southern blacks hating it the most). It also indicates that the latest murders under the colors of the flag has convinced a majority of the public its okay to take it off of statehouses (its only flown over most of them since desegregation).


The poll shows that 57% of Americans see the flag more as a symbol of Southern pride than as a symbol of racism, about the same as in 2000 when 59% said they viewed it as a symbol of pride. Opinions of the flag are sharply divided by race, and among whites, views are split by education.

Among African-Americans, 72% see the Confederate flag as a symbol of racism, just 25% of whites agree. In the South, the racial divide is even broader. While 75% of Southern whites describe the flag as a symbol of pride and 18% call it a symbol of racism, those figures are almost exactly reversed among Southern African-Americans, with just 11% seeing it as a sign of pride and 75% viewing it as a symbol of racism.

A majority favors removing the Confederate flag from government property that isn't part of a museum: 55% support that while 43% are opposed. And half support private companies choosing not to sell or manufacture items featuring the Confederate flag: 50% are in favor, 47% opposed.

Tennessee Jed said...

Breathes there the man with soul so dead,
Who never to himself hath said,
This is my day, election day!
Who heart hath ne'er within him burn'd,
As toward the polling place he turned
And there to promptly made his way—
If such there breathe, go, mark him well;
For him no Minstrel raptures swell;
High though his titles, proud his name,
Boundless his wealth as wish can claim;
Despite those titles, power, and pelf,
The wretch, concentred all in self,
Living, shall forfeit fair renown,
And, doubly dying, shall go down
To the vile dust, from whence he sprung,
Unwept, unhonour'd, and unsung.
from The Lay of the Last Minstrel by Sir Walter Scott
BTW I could not agree more about FB not being a place for political discourse

Kit said...

Andrew Price continues the Summer of Marvel this week with Iron Man 2. I will be back next week, hopefully with a 2-fer of Thor and Captain America.

BevfromNYC said...

Anthony - So then if the Confederate flag is so abhorant, why aren't these idiots burning a Confederate flag? Instead they wave the Black Nationalist flag and burn the US flag...it makes no sense other than just to be deliberately provocative. How are they any different from Confederate flag waving racist bigots from the South?


Really, how are is this any less racist and why are we not allowed to call them out as being racists? Because they are.

BevfromNYC said...

Yes, Kit allowing the "heckler's veto" is way passed "annoying" to me. The real answer should have been to cancel any Cinco de Mayo Mexican flag-waving since the threats of violence were coming from Mexican students and trouble makers and not from students wearing or displaying the US flag. And to spend the day studying the significance of Cinco de Mayo as it pertains to US history in general like we did as kids in Texas.

AndrewPrice said...

Bev, That is the problem with hard-core ideologues. If you don't goose step with them in perfect harmony, then you need to be shoved up against the wall and eliminated. Your "friend" is a Nazi at heart.

AndrewPrice said...

In terms of the flags, until the right gets into demanding that things be banned too, the left will keep playing this stupid game. That is the only way to stop them, to make them pay a high cost for opening the door to idiocratic hypersensitivity.

We should be demanding the banning of the Palestinian flag, all Soviet symbols, all Nazi symbols (as they were leftists), all the Black Power crap, anything Islamic, and so on. We should be protesting leftist speakers on campus and attacking them. We should be destroying every leftist we can whenever they are caught doing anything they attack others for.

Unless we do that, then the left will keep doing these things because they pay no price for doing it and sometimes they score.

AndrewPrice said...

BTW, the reason banning this flag worked so well was because people are stupid and the left presented this as a harmless way (nobody gets hurt) to make a statement against racism and violence. Basically, this was an easy way for people to feel self-righteous without feeling like they did anything bad to anyone else.

On the other hand, the reason they keep failing with banning guns is because it's not easy. They don't want to see themselves as taking away something tens of millions own and use.

Something for our side to consider.

Kit said...


That story about your friend makes me glad I live in the South.

BevfromNYC said...

Btw - When I stated that I "chose to "unfriend" one of many of my Facebook "friends"" I meant I unfriended many of my "friends". Not that I was bragging that I have many, many friends of Facebook...

Anthony said...


In addition to the event below, there was a burn the Confederate flag day back in May. That being said, most sane people dislike things without burning them (an act which might borrow trouble).


Also, disliking the Confederate flag doesn't necessarily make one a pan-Africanist. Despite the best efforts of groups such as TransAfrica, that is an extremely fringe movement. Obama has studiously ignored Africa (paying it less attention than Bush or Clinton) but few care.

I agree Marcus Garvey's racist flag shouldn't be flown above state houses either and if some private company wants to not sell them, fine and good.

Kit said...


Should've put written that as "friend".

EPorvaznik said...

If and when a homosexual enters a church and guns down multiple parishioners, and post facto photos hit the internet of their brandishing a rainbow flag, will that spur the movement to outlaw that flag? Yes, yes, I realize the recent legalization of gay marriage should squelch any animosity the homosexual community feels for churches, but A) I’ve learned logic isn’t exactly a leftist’s strong suit, and B) I’ve seen far too much palpable anger from the left towards the church, notably at someone as pure of heart as Father Jonathan Morris.

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